Far 2 Fabulous

Authenticity, Identity, And The Courage To Say No with Pauline Buckley

• Julie Clark & Catherine Chapman • Episode 96

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Episode 96: Authenticity, Identity, And The Courage To Say No with Pauline Buckley

What if the truest version of you isn’t a fixed label but the choice you make right now? We sit down with guide and former HR leader Pauline Buckley to unpack authenticity, identity, and the courage it takes to live in alignment when culture nudges you to conform. Growing up as the hearing child of deaf parents, Pauline learned to listen in a way most of us never do. That deep stillness now shapes how she helps people remember who they are, who they’re not, and how to act on that truth with clarity and care.

We dive into the tension between masculine and feminine energies and why so many of us are stuck performing a self that feels safe but isn’t honest. Pauline offers a sharp lens on fear, division, and the shaken ant jar: when chaos rises, we turn on each other and forget our power. From COVID-era questioning to everyday boundary-setting, we explore practical ways to shift from fear to love, and from apologising to owning a clean no. We talk about alcohol, social pressure, and how removing numbing agents raises your energy and refines your friendships. Without sedation, you discover which spaces lift you and which habits you’re done carrying.

Stillness becomes the thread that ties it all together. Five quiet minutes a day can change how you hear your body’s signals, make decisions, and treat yourself. We discuss midlife hormones, people pleasing, and why many women find a new appetite for truth as tolerance for misalignment fades. The imagine if mindset invites you to dream and take one step toward it, even when others resist. You don’t need a perfect plan; you need a honest next move. Along the way, you’ll hear stories of creative problem solving, like using improv to build confidence in high-stakes rooms, and simple prompts such as is that true and how do you know that to be true that cut through noise and reveal what matters.

If you’re ready to live with fewer apologies and more alignment, this conversation is your nudge. Listen, share with a friend, and tell us: what truth are you ready to speak today? Subscribe, leave a review, and join our community to keep the conversation going.

If you would like to connect with Pauline; her website is https://www.paulinebuckley.com/ and you can find her on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/paulinebuckley1/

Got a question or comment? Send us a text message here!

Thank you for listening.

You can continue the conversation with us in the Far 2 Fabulous Facebook group. Come and connect with other women on a journey to empowered health.

For more information about Julie Clark Nutrition, click HERE
For more information about Catherine Chapman, click HERE

We look forward to you joining us on the next episode.

SPEAKER_01:

Welcome to Far Too Fabulous. Julie and Catherine. Join us on a mission to racial fabulousness and reading mindfulness. Get ready for some feistiness, inspiration, and chat, and humour as we journey together towards empowered well-being.

SPEAKER_02:

Let's dive in. Hello, and welcome to this week's episode of the Far Too Fabulous Podcast. I tried to do that a little bit more like you that time, but that was really good. It wasn't so much newsreader. I was channeling in my inner catharim. Anyway, today we are joined by a very special guest, Pauline Buckley, who actually lives down the road. And we met because we often are on the beach walking our dogs. And most of the time we kind of just have a hi, how are you conversation? And then a few weeks ago, we ended up going down almost the rabbit hole, and we started talking about all things from being authentic, finding your true self to a changing consciousness in the world at the moment. And I said to her, you need to come on the podcast. And then we had this massive conversation about well, what do you do? Well, what do you do? And anyway, I discovered that Pauline is actually pretty amazing. So I'm really, really happy to have her on because we are going to be talking about authenticity, identity, living in alignment, all sorts. We're just going to see where the conversation goes. So, Pauline, thank you for being here, first of all. And I've just done a brief description of how we've met, but I haven't really said exactly who you are and what you do. So over to you.

SPEAKER_03:

Thank you. I've never had such an amazing introduction. Thank you very much. Love being called amazing. Well, I started life in Oldham in Lancashire. That's where I grew up. I was the firstborn child of deaf parents, and I'm telling you that for a reason. Uh, because obviously I had a very interesting childhood having deaf parents, and it was almost like living in two worlds. And um, so I grew up, uh, got jobs and left school at 16, eventually got into HR Human Resources. So I was in HR for over 20 years and saw lots of interesting things and people's behaviours, and that's what really got me interested in how we work and why we do things and all of that. And near the end of my time in that role, I got a coach, and that was really transformative for me, and I learned a lot about who I am and who I'm not, and what I liked, and what I and I realized that I didn't really know what I loved, which was a bit weird in my 40s. And so that really transformed things for me, and I ended up leaving and then setting up my own business as a coach. So um, I've been executive coaching for many years, but recently I've I've changed what I'm doing, and I'd call myself more as of a guide for people. So I help them to know who they truly are and who they're not, and then support them in taking the action they want to take to change things in their life.

SPEAKER_02:

I mean, that's huge, isn't it? Who you truly are and who you're truly not. I wonder how many people actually know who they truly are. No, you haven't seen problems.

SPEAKER_01:

How many people, if you ask them what do you want, will look at you as if nobody has ever asked them that question and they'd never even considered it. Without what do you mean?

SPEAKER_03:

It's amazing. And often, like I know, I was, you know, I had this career where I'd make all the decisions and then I go home to my ex-husband's life, you know, where he wanted to live. The furniture was mainly what he chose, and it just made me realize that there's nothing of me in this at home. Well, not very much anyway. And so it really got me thinking about well, what do I want? And can I have what I want? And yes, I can. And that just completely that's when my life really changed, and it's been very interesting ever since then.

SPEAKER_01:

I uh what I love actually is that I've I like in the work that I do, I'll often speak about what people want or and identities and things like that. I don't think I've ever considered what you're not or what I am not, which is really interesting. Can you give me an example of like what you're not, what you discover that you were not?

SPEAKER_03:

It's not what you're not, it's what you're not all of the time. So if you say I am very disciplined, well, I am some of the time, and some of the time I'm not, or I have a high attention to detail. Well, it depends what it is. So I am nothing other than the expression, the expression of me that you experience right now. And when you put a label on what you're what you are and what you're not, then that gets stuck, and especially with your parents, teachers, friends, wanting you to be a certain way and to varying degrees of extreme, you believe that, and it's not really true. Like, you know, somebody's told they're stupid. I know really clever people who deeply unconsciously think they're stupid, and so they do things, then you think, why are you doing that? And it's because deeply unconsciously they believe they're stupid, even when you know they might have a PhD.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, yeah, it's it's so fascinating. Do you find that women in particular have more of an issue with being their true self than that?

SPEAKER_03:

I would have said yes a few years ago, but now I'm not so sure because one of the things I've been learning a lot about is the masculine and the feminine, and we have both within us. There's a lot of confusion in the world at the moment about whether someone's masculine or feminine or you know, whatever. And so men have almost been deconditioned, if you like, from being masculine and told it's bad, it's bad to be angry and um show their strength and their power. And then women have got confused as I was. I was very much in my masculine as a woman, you know, that is earning the money, getting stuff done, performance focused to keep myself safe. But I was confused about that. And so the last few years I've been really relaxing into the feminine. So I think there's just a lot of confusion generally, and it's by design.

SPEAKER_02:

By design. Oh, that's a little, or where are we gonna go with that?

SPEAKER_01:

What do you mean by by design? Let's do it. Let's do it, let's pick that scab right up.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, well, if you think about the madness that's going on in the world right now and the utter confusion and chaos that there is around culture, around religion, politics, gender, all kinds of things. And it is by design so that we are not as powerful as we truly are. We have really forgotten how powerful we are. And I had a conversation once with someone on the beach. The most interesting conversations happen on the beach. And I do, don't they? And I was talking about this and about power and our power to change things, things. And he said, you know, well, we don't have the power. And I said, We do, you know, there's potentially eight billion of us, and a few people who are trying to make this world what it's not, and we do have the power, we just forgot. But if you are divided, then you're not as powerful. And if we fight each other, the stuff we do, we do to each other, you know, it's madness. And I I remember hearing about an experiment where they put uh red ants and black ants in a jar and they lived side by side very happily, and then they shook the jar, and the ants started attacking each other because they were in chaos and fear, and that is the design for us is that if we're in chaos and fear, we'll attack each other and not live as harmoniously as I know we can do.

SPEAKER_02:

And we are seeing that played out in well everywhere at the moment, aren't we? Yeah, which is yeah, really, really sad. I discovered a couple of things about who I'm not during COVID, actually. It was really interesting because I discovered that I am not a conformist. And although I had a bit of an idea that I wasn't, it was right, it smacked me round the face during that time. And the other thing I discovered is that I don't necessarily accept everything as factual. So I question loads of things, and then as I went back over my life, I thought, actually, I've always questioned things, but I hadn't realized how much until that situation had happened. So now I use it as a strength, and I'm teaching my tri children to use it as a strength, you know, even to like the feedback I get from school when I go to parents' evenings is I absolutely love your child. They ask so many questions, half of which I don't know the answer, which is just brilliant.

SPEAKER_03:

And I just I love that. Me too. And sounds like uh your child has a wonderful teacher because you know, my experience of school was shut up, don't ask any questions. My experience of home was don't ask any questions, and so you grow up not wanting to ask questions, and COVID was a brilliant time actually for connecting with your innate wisdom. This feels off, I need to find out more about it. And you know, because there are a lot of things that just didn't make sense, and yet people were carrying on doing what they were told to do, and yet for some people they were going, No, I'm not wearing a mask because they actually don't work. And I'm not doing X, I didn't have the vaccine, and and I didn't have it because I knew my body knew I listened to my body, and when you listen to every part of you, the mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual, and then they all come together and they go, Do you want to do that? No, and it doesn't matter then what anybody says, you just do it the best for you because if you look after yourself, then you can be a service in this world. Then you can be a service.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's really true.

SPEAKER_03:

You know, we are unique creative beings and we're all connected, but there's so much confusion about being unique, independent, yet connected. Well, how does that work? And now we're starting to find out.

SPEAKER_02:

I can really relate to that a bit like tuning in and feeling that something was off, like really strong feeling and thinking to myself, this feels really wrong to me. And and then having people around me questioning why I was thinking things were wrong and why they didn't sit with me, and then seeing how that played out. So I actually found that period incredibly stressful because I didn't feel like I could just be myself a hundred percent. I felt like I had to hide it away a bit in case it upset other people or you know, caused a problem, or you know, that kind of thing. So yeah, I think a lot, a lot of people, because we attract like people, don't we? And conversations that I've had on that subject, a lot of people felt the same, you know, that they felt that they couldn't, they couldn't be their true self out in public because of being demonized or retribution.

SPEAKER_01:

And still conversations that we're having now with the cross-section of people, they kind of felt a s a similar way. They felt that it would that what was going on wasn't right, maybe they you know, maybe they've chosen not to not have a vaccine or something like that. But again, they've kind of really flattened that because that wasn't the sort of the general consensus. And in fact, actually, no one knows what the general consensus was because it was being dictated to us by the powers that be and by the media. So everybody's thinking, oh, everybody's thinking that, and I'm thinking something different. I'd better not say anything. And the more that you talk about it now, then more people actually thought the same, but were just like, I can't, you know, I can't say that, I can't go against the grain. It's not, it's not safe. And I mean, that's a that's a big thing, isn't it, for a community within a community is to not stick your head above the parapet.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, do you know? I was literally just thinking about that. So years ago, Pauline, something happened. I was when my kids were young, I went on a school trip and I made a comment about the lunches that the children had on the school trip. I didn't mention the school. I did, you know, there was no reference to any names or anything. I just made a general observation. I've been on a school trip with 60 year two or year one kids, and I've just seen what they've eaten, and it shocked me because I'm looking at my child's lunchbox, not to say that I'm perfect or anything, but I am a nutritionist, so that is a focus of mine. And I made a comment and it went absolutely mental, didn't it? Um, it really upset a lot of people. You know, I got called into the school, called into the school and to have my wrists slapped, or you mustn't do that. Um, and that was quite a big wake-up moment for me with the head teacher. He's very tall, and I'm only and I'm very short. And I thought the way that he is like the body language of it was really unpleasant. And and he basically said, you know, you can't go around saying things like that. And I said, people like me need to stand up for this because this is a problem. What we feed our kids impacts their behaviour, their growth and development, their health, everything. And he said, if I do something like that, I'll be on the front page of the paper. And I said to him, that's the difference between me and you. I don't mind being on the front page of the paper because this is important. But I had lots of um backlash from it, and so I did this video on Facebook where I literally I had a hard hat on and I I I like had a pretend wall, didn't I? And I lifted my head up. I lifted my head up with my hard hat on and said, Is it safe to come out yet? And just did a bit of a post. But I did also get people saying, you know, well done for you for standing up and saying this, because I try my best to, you know, give my kids healthy things, but you know, I've got the teachers giving them Harry Bow for doing well and all of this stuff going on, and it's not right. So yeah, moving your head above the parapet.

SPEAKER_01:

That was yeah, that was interesting, wasn't it?

SPEAKER_03:

Gotta be brave, haven't you, to to have these opposing you do, and that's a brilliant example of the fear of him being on the front page, is the reason why you can't say something that's fundamentally important to children's health. But it's not about that, it's about him and his ego and so and his fear, and that's what it is. It's all about fear. Whenever anybody reacts to you in that way, it's their fear. And so when you ask questions and say, Well, what is it about that you don't like? It can often bring about a silence, or it might bring about more anger. But anger is fear, disappointment is fear, frustration is fear. We need to live in the frequency of love more, but it's hard in this environment. And that's why it's so important that it starts with you.

SPEAKER_01:

And it's, I mean, it is like you were saying earlier, it's a brilliant way to bring chaos because if everybody is living in fear and making their decisions from fear rather than from love, rather than from their own identity, I mean it's never gonna go well, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03:

And it really isn't. And that's why COVID was like the testing ground for what's coming next, which is digital ID, which will be the ultimate control. And if we sign up to that, it's game over. And I'm hoping, I mean, there's three million people signed that petition, so that's a good start. And I'm hoping that when people are threatened with things like you can't go to work or you can't go in a supermarket, they'll still say no. Because, like with COVID, I was told I wouldn't be able to travel and two months later I was on a plane. It wasn't true. When you're told something is mandatory, it's not true. You don't have to do it, but they use trickery with words. And so people think mandatory is oh, I have to. Well, where does it say that? Show me, and they can't. We have to be more curious and we have to stand our ground when we just feel that something's not right.

SPEAKER_02:

Here, here, we should run the country. During COVID, I did look into how do I become a politician? I'm not happy with what's going on. How do I become a politician? I've done this with like, how do I become a doctor? How do I become a doctor? And yeah, because I'm thinking I need to be able to see it from their perspective or have their level of power and authority to challenge it. That's what I was thinking. Um, but yeah, we we often um we often joke about we should be in charge, don't we?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, we do. And I love I must say I love the phrase, is is that true? Is this true? Is that true? I use that very frequently, much to the annoyance of most of the people I'm talking to. Yeah. So is that true? Is that true for you?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, it's questioning. I use the one, how do you know that to be true? I do this to my kids and they go, Oh, yeah, you know, some of the things they come out and how do you know that to be true? And then they get all squirry, it's quite funny.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and you know, if you move away from good, bad, right, and wrong versus this works for me, this doesn't, well, it doesn't work for me, it might work for you, and that's okay. It doesn't work for me.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, and it takes that judgment away, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. So, how does someone like you said you help people find their true self? What sort of people come to you, and how do you go about finding what you are and what you're not?

SPEAKER_03:

I just people just find me and I find them now, and um, it's really interesting the whole who is your ideal client. I don't have one. It's whoever is ready to hear their own words, listen to their wisdom, connect with that, and to do the things that scare them. And that might just be telling somebody, I don't want to do that anymore. I remember saying to my ex-husband, I don't want to go to the pub on Friday anymore, I don't like it. It's boring. And it became a real problem, this non-acceptance of what you want and the enmeshment in families and relationships. And well, if you don't want to do it, then I'm gonna do it. Okay, then bye. And that's it. But no, so people find it really hard because they might lose all their friends or they might lose all their family if they actually said what they truly felt. And so I help them and never tell anybody what to do. You know the answers for you, always. And it's almost like we're a light, we're a bright light that's been dimmed and dimmed and dimmed until you don't want to shine anymore. And so it's helping that light to be bright again. And the more you do it, the more you realize that it's not that scary. And oh, if you don't want to be friends with me, okay, bye. And it's that easy because the most important thing is that I can speak my truth. One of my friends told me to stop posting things in COVID again and because I was ruining her happy Facebook feed, and this was my first real moment of oh my god, we've been friends for 25 years, and you want me to stop speaking my truth. Why? Now I knew why, but I see that as a form of abuse. If you can't speak your truth in a relationship, then what's going on?

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, something's not right. That's not a relationship, it's not.

SPEAKER_03:

And what we've learned about relationships, what we see everywhere is drama, drama. You know, there's always something, especially on the TV. I mean, that is the biggest mind control out there. We see all of that and it's normalized. And relationship is nothing like what we see.

SPEAKER_02:

We had um we had a couple of conversations about people pleasing, didn't we? Really, really interesting. The bit I remember most like vividly now is that no is a complete sentence. Love that. That was just so impactful. Every time I go to say no now, it's not no because of such and such. It's not no, but you know, it's no. Stop.

unknown:

Whoa.

SPEAKER_02:

Love it. I just love it. Light drop. Yeah. No, it really is, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03:

It really is. I was in a pub once um a few years ago, and this guy was trying to get me to dance, and it was just like Sunday afternoon, nobody was dancing. I didn't want to dance, I didn't feel like dancing. And he said, Oh, come on, I said, No. And the room just went quiet. Because people just don't say no, you know, they always give it away.

SPEAKER_02:

Especially not in the UK, because it's just another thing that we, you know, we're always apologizing for our own existence, aren't we? You know, I'm so sorry to be here alive within your presence.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, it's bonkers. And he then tried to say that I wasn't doing it because I was afraid. And I said, no, I'm not. I don't want to dance. It's just like quiet. You leave the space, and it's amazing how powerful it is.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, absolutely. But yeah, I love that. No, in that in that instance as well, that was a complete sentence. No, and that's the end of that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

Because you really wouldn't want me to explain why.

SPEAKER_01:

No, do you want me to tell the whole room? I just don't want to dance with you. That's what it is, exactly. I mean, that's the thing though. He I mean, he knew that without words. That's what that's that silence says. And it's it is often that's when the kind of the um like the anger or the whatever emotion from the other side is it's that um that it feels like a judgment on them. Like you were saying about not wanting to go to the pub with your husband on a Friday and and just saying, no, I don't like it. And again, they turn it into something that means something about themselves, don't they? And it, well, that means that me going to the pub is bad, clearly. Like you're making a judgment. It's like when you someone gives up or says they're not drinking, and then everybody goes, Oh no, go on, go on, have a drink, because it's it's like a judgment on on them. Why are you not drinking? What's the matter with drinking? I'm all right, I'm drinking, and I'm okay.

SPEAKER_02:

And then they have to justify it, don't they? Like, you know, I'm not an alcoholic, I only have so many drinks, and then they go into this massive explanation, and like you said you weren't having a drink. Yeah, and it's so funny, isn't it? It really is funny. It happens the same with desserts. If you're out with a group of people and you know someone wants a dessert, but other people don't want a dessert, but they need someone to have a dessert to make it okay for them. It's so funny. We're like, have a dessert. You can have a dessert. You you can be the only person having dessert, there's nothing wrong with that. But no, no, I've got to get someone, I've got to get someone with me for dessert, otherwise, it means all this stuff about me. It's it's really you see that play out a lot, don't you?

SPEAKER_03:

You really do. And alcohol is a biggie for that. You know, join in with us, or then you're a mirror, we don't want to look at. And I would say that's the most significant thing I've done is stop drinking seven years ago. And it raises your frequency straight away, and it just keeps on rising because you're clearing out your body. And and even if you stop drinking for a month, it doesn't really do it because it's still in your system for quite some time. And um, you know, I'm not judging anybody who wants to drink. I used to love drinking, but it doesn't work for me. And my body was telling me that, and so I listened.

SPEAKER_02:

We've had this, you know what? We've had this come at us quite a lot, haven't we? We we both we both do like a drink, and we we keep saying that in our future we can see a a time without alcohol, don't we? Yeah, but it hasn't come to us yet, but it keeps we keep getting that, we keep getting those messages.

SPEAKER_01:

It's really funny. My my husband has stopped drinking, he hasn't drunk now for about four or five months, which is I'm gonna say it makes him sound like an alcoholic. I was gonna say it's amazing because he he loves a drink and he he loves, he won't mind me saying this, but it's it's definitely like a a social thing. It makes him feel more comfortable when he's when he's with people. And he's still saying, I'm not really sure I notice any any difference. I notice a difference, but so many people that have stopped drinking for a long time say that the benefits don't really show themselves for six months, 12 months, sort of down the down the line. So it's it's interesting that you said that that even sort of seven years on, it's you still keep feeling the benefits.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, I do, and it and it's part of I suppose the the cleaning up of my experience of life in relationships and everything that I do. It really started with coaching and then with removing a toxicity from my body because I could just feel this, especially wine, had a big impact on me. And so then it's like I really enjoy being with you and I'm not having a drink, or we really haven't got that much to talk about, or I can't dance to something when I'm sober that I don't like. If I don't like the music, I can't dance, I just go. And you you you a truer version of yourself just by eliminating things that don't work for you.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Well, you take away the sedation, basically, because those things are all anything that we use to numb us out, really. Like a mask or something, yeah. Yeah, it is it is a form of sedation, isn't it?

SPEAKER_01:

Was there a catalyst to you? I wasn't saying rediscovering, but discovering yourself, like you were obviously sort of peeling off layers, your life was changing, there was an awakening. Was there something that that kicked this off?

SPEAKER_03:

Probably separating from my husband, sharing the childcare, and then really learning about what are my values and how do I want to bring my children up? What furniture do I want? That that was me then being able to experience it in a freer way and realizing that it wasn't before. But I guess you know, throughout my life, there've been things where I remember when I was in my late teens and my boyfriend at the time said, You put on a posh voice when you go on the phone, or you put on a posh voice when you speak to that person. And I'm like, Do I do I do that? You know, why do I do that? Why do I have to pretend with that person? And it's like, well, who am I? And over the years I've questioned, who am I? And then there is no anything after that because it's what I am in the moment, who I am in the moment. But there are themes. I am someone who loves having fun, I love dancing, I love learning, I love growing, I love conversations like this. You know, it's like that's it. Beautiful.

SPEAKER_02:

We should probably just say that you don't have to separate from your husband to experience this. Imagine, imagine Ian and Mark listening to this later on, going, oh shit, what's gonna happen now?

SPEAKER_03:

Definitely not, and and this is like you know, it's again what you sense as I'm saying this, you know, people will sense, oh yeah, that's something I need to look at. And it might be overeating, or it might be watching too much Netflix, or whatever it is that comes up into your awareness is the thing for you to look at. And then when you stop doing these things that you know are not good for you, like I, you know, I watch a couple of episodes of something, I go, right, I'm gonna go for a walk. So at eight o'clock at night, I'll go for a walk, and then I feel so much better. So it's easier to slip into these things that you think are good for you or nice, but they and they are to a certain extent. But then as soon as you start to think, oh no, you need to change it for you. And the more you do that, then you become you become um unstoppable if you want to do something, nobody can stop you. Nobody can say you shouldn't be doing that, and you go, okay, well, I am just because we are totally conditioned to worry about what other people think of us, and I really did, and I pretended that I didn't care, but I behaved in a in a way that would, I thought, make people. Like me, make more people like me, then I'm safe. And it wasn't true.

SPEAKER_02:

So interesting. I must ask you about imagine if, because that's something that you talk about on your website. Imagine if. What does that mean?

SPEAKER_03:

What are you imagining if comes from my children, Isaac and Freya. And Imagine If, if you imagine if anything, anything that you want, is it possible? It's all about dreaming. We are told not to dream. Don't be a dreamer. Well, don't be a dreamer and do nothing. Dream and take a step in that direction. Now, the challenging thing with change, people say they like change, but do they really? Because the minute you start to take a step in that direction, if it's different than your friends or your family, then they might go, Oh, don't do that. That's rubbish. Don't do that. It's boring. Or it's that's not for you. And you go, isn't it? And then you come back to, well, do I want it? Am I still thinking about it? It often won't go away unless you've really suppressed it and you're doing a hell of a lot of numbing. These things just pop up and you might go, Oh no, that's not for me. I really want a swimming pool. And I believe that one day I will have a swimming pool in my back garden. Might have a tiny nose, and that's a swimming pool. I really want that. That's easy. I dream of it. I love swimming. I want a saltwater swimming pool. I swam in one last year and I haven't stopped thinking about it because the sea isn't that great here, isn't it? But you know, it's like that's don't get caffeine on that subject. I can see your face. No, but it's that's my dream. So why not? Why not have whatever you want? Because everybody wants different things. I want to be more of service in this world, I want to be able to help more people because this is a time of massive transformation, shifting consciousness like we've never experienced, and an opportunity to be true.

SPEAKER_02:

Absolutely. Yeah. It's I find it really interesting how that thing you said about it keeps coming up. I've noticed this all the way through my life when something keeps coming up, and it's it starts off being something that comes into my head, but then I will be having a conversation with someone and it will get randomly mentioned, or I'll see it somewhere, or and and once I've kind of it's been I've been really conscious of it three times, I have this like little thing. Oh, I need to pay attention to that. It's so interesting.

SPEAKER_01:

Have you had that with things? I yeah, you do get things definitely that that come up and you're like, oh, that's for me. Oh, it's scary, but that's for me.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, yeah, and then if you do try and numb it down, you end up like for me, I normally end up being ill if I ignore the thing. That's the thing, that's how it plays out in me. And then it's like my system will floor me so that I can listen to the thing. Because I'm very busy, it will I hang a minute, she's not listening, she's very busy. What we need to do, put her in bed for a couple of days, then she will listen. That's how I've experienced it.

SPEAKER_03:

It's so true. And I've got really interested in the body over the last few years, and you know, my body was telling me, don't drink wine, and I didn't really know why. There wasn't anything significant, but certain illnesses relate to certain issues, beliefs that you have about yourself. We have a lot of guilt, a lot, a lot of fear, and that's related to fear, a lot of shame.

SPEAKER_02:

Shame. Oh, it's so low, isn't it? It's so low energy energetically.

SPEAKER_03:

It is, and and the things that have happened, they often define you, and yet there is a way of you know, through connecting to who you are, to have being in stillness. You know, a lot of people struggle with meditation, as I did, you know, I'm very busy head, but it's not about being quiet in your head, it's just about being still and being with you and listening to that, and maybe having a conversation, but eventually you come down into your heart, and that's really where decisions must be made. Because then you will do no harm, and that is the true law of this land is do no harm. And I'm sure pretty much everybody in their hearts knows that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, well, you would hope so anyway. Yeah, questionable about some people, but yeah, you wouldn't.

SPEAKER_01:

There's not the um people don't give themselves that space anymore, do they? They like they fill every millisecond with with a Netflix, with a with a scrolling, with a podcast, with a with a even with the radio. So I often, if I'm in the car, I don't have anything on, I'm just very happy with my thoughts ticking over, or you know, looking around. And I think, and I saw ironically, I was scrolling at this point, and it was just a video of a kid just sort of balancing along a pavement or knocking a ball up and down against a wall, or I don't know, making something out of a bin lid and pretending they were battling. And it said that we're just like kids are not just bored anymore. Like there's constant stimulation, and that actually how much benefit there was for us when we were kids just to be bored and then go and make something up, and for as adults now, just to be just to be still, just to be with ourselves. We can't, they're just people can't outstand to just be with themselves.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01:

And it's um, I mean, it's I think it's very sad. I quite like being with myself, I make lots of sense.

SPEAKER_03:

It is like a badge of honor almost, you know. I'm so busy, and I used to be ridiculously busy, and I've slowed my life down so much because we choose, and the biggest lies we tell ourselves is I haven't got enough time, I haven't got enough money. If you really want to do something, you will find both. But it's a matter of priority, it's almost like your calendar rule rules your life. And it's not true, and this is healthy control, you know, having healthy control of what you do versus trying to control other people is not healthy control. And it does not possible, but we try and do that.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah. Do you think that there is something in this phase, especially for females going through hormone changes that heightens this need to be your true self? And I mean, we've heard this a lot, haven't we? That this, you know, I've I've got to a point where I don't care anymore. There's quite a big link with estrogen and people pleasing, and that period of when you're keeping the society going and that making sure that you're looking after your husband and the kids and all of that, there's a hormonal play with that. But once that's done, it's like suddenly you've had the veil lifted, and then you become the person that does use the sentence no. Yeah, I do not care.

SPEAKER_03:

And and often it's because you're exhausted because you haven't slept well, you've got night sweats or whatever you're experiencing. Often the more tired you are, the less, less you can be. And you're definitely not as tolerant. And and it is, I felt because I went through that in my early 50s, and um, it was a time of like really questioning and going within like, do I really want to do this thing? Yes or no? I pretty much know, but how am I going to do that? And just getting clearer, because you have to, otherwise, you're just going to be miserable and struggle. And who wants that? This is such an amazing planet. And nature, we are nature. We we talk about saving nature. We are nature.

SPEAKER_02:

We are nature, yeah.

SPEAKER_03:

We we are we disconnected and forgotten that part, haven't we? We have, and I've I've got really interested in herbal remedies and all kinds of things in connecting to nature that is so powerful, and yet we're taught something very different to that.

SPEAKER_01:

More and more going further and further away from nature and and using that to help us, and it's getting more and more complicated, isn't it? When actually we're going completely the wrong direction.

SPEAKER_03:

Definitely. And you know, it's the it's the creativity within us as we get clearer that really grows and creative problem solving. You know, if you want to do something or change something, you have the answer to that. You know, one of my clients was really scared of um, you know, senior people in a room and oh my god, and he just freaked out and he he just didn't speak as well as he could do. And then he was walking past this place and um they were doing improvisation, and so he went in and and ended up going there for a few weeks and learned about impro improvisation, which would scare me to death like standing there and and doing improv, but he did it, so he found that solution that then helped him to be more confident and think on his feet. Nobody else can find a solution for you, really.

SPEAKER_02:

You know, it is so true, and which is why we've got you know sayings like you can lead a horse to water. I mean, how many people in our life do we personally have the answers for? But they they need to do it themselves. We want it for them. But you've literally got the water's there for them, and they're just not interested. It happens all the time, doesn't it?

SPEAKER_03:

The biggest challenge is to then go, Well, what am I doing? Am I doing that? What's my equivalent of that that I'm really trying to change? And it's back to you, it's always back to you. But we're told back to you is selfish, it is not, it is the most important thing you will do. Yeah because we're all a mirror, and you bring people into your lives, your partners, your friends, and they are a mirror, we are a mirror for each other. And when I sit with people in a guidance session, I can sit in deep silence because that's what I did as a baby, you know, silence, deaf parents, no talking, no TV, nothing. I I'm used to that. And so I sit in the deepest silence with them, and in that they hear their own words, the their own solutions come up, and then they go, Oh yeah, I need to do that, don't I? And I'm not going, so when are you going to do that? Then they automatically go, so right, I need to do this. How are you going to do that? And then they know.

SPEAKER_02:

They do, yeah. I do that with my clients as well, and I know you do that with yours, is that I'm I'm not there to tell you exactly what to do. I want you to learn it for yourself. Absolutely. So I will ask people in a consultation, right? You've done really well with this, this, and this. What do you how what do you feel that you need to work on now? And they always tell me. And if they don't, and I'm thinking, I might say, what are your thoughts on such and such? And they go, Oh, actually, yeah, you're right. I was pretending that I thought I was pretending that that didn't exist and you weren't going to mention it, you know, that kind of thing. But you're right, every we all know, don't we?

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. What was interesting with your example about the guy in the improv is that if you were coaching that person, you would never have gone, hmm, okay, the problem in the boardroom is this. I know, go to improv. Like, we don't have the answers. They've got the answers. You've got the answer within you. And you could never have, you could like you would have never fixed that problem with that sort of on a traditional coaching level.

SPEAKER_03:

I know. And I've coached lots of people who are very creative, very musical. Just by the way they describe playing a piano, I know they're amazing. And then I hear them and I'm like, wow. But they're they're told you can't earn money, you can't earn enough money by doing that. And you know, I I look forward to that changing for people, you know, when you've got a gift, share it in the world in some way.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I'm sure nobody turned around to Elton John and said you can't make money off of playing a piano, right? There's always evidence for someone, someone's already done it and trod the path, even though we're we're on our own path, someone always is ahead with the evidence that tells us that we can do it too.

SPEAKER_01:

We can they probably told you he couldn't do it in those silly glasses, so but thankfully you ignore them.

SPEAKER_02:

Yeah, absolutely. Right, we've got to finish up, and I was gonna ask you a question that we could finish up with. What's one thing each of us could do today to live a more like a little more truthfully, a more truthful life? Where would you start? What's what's one thing that we can do?

SPEAKER_03:

Spend five minutes alone with yourself because simple. If that's it, and if you can do 10, and if you can do 10, do do 15, but do at least five minutes on your own in silence, stillness.

SPEAKER_02:

See, get used to listening to yourself because a lot of people have lost that, haven't they?

SPEAKER_03:

That's yeah, and when you listen to yourself, uh hear the things that you say to yourself that you wouldn't say to anybody else. Yeah, we're not very good at being kind to ourselves.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah, people are atrocious to each other, like to themselves.

SPEAKER_03:

Yeah, and and I think that is a trait for women generally, is yeah, yeah. Just shift that around, even if you just change one thing. Brilliant.

SPEAKER_01:

No, I I love I do I love that. I've been very practically, I've been, and I know this probably sounds very strange, but I've been not taking my phone to the toilet with me. Yeah, don't I mean, don't do I've been sat there, or like I take a look, you know, you take a book or something, and I've just been sat there. And the first few times I'm like, genuinely, this is boring. But it's just it it's that moment when you're sat there and you can't do anything, can't go anywhere until you're finished. So you've just got to sit there and be with yourself, and um, and you know, all other hygiene things aside, and I because I know a lot of people have the phones, don't they, in the toilets?

SPEAKER_03:

They do really exactly the same because I'm trying my best to do one thing at a time. So eat a meal, don't watch anything, go to the loo, nothing. And you know what it's like people say, I'm nipping to the loo. Oh, I'll just go for a quick wee. Why? Have a slow one, yeah.

SPEAKER_02:

It's a really important function, and this is why I love this conversate, these conversations we have, because that's where we've ended up, the end of the day. On the toilet. Brilliant, love it. Well, Pauline, thank you so much for coming on and and talking. Uh I didn't know. Well, we said, didn't we? Let's just see where the conversation goes. You know, nothing scripted here. We just see what happens.

SPEAKER_01:

And yeah, I think we covered quite a lot there. I feel I I feel like we've only just scratched the surface. I think, Pauline, you might have to come back every month.

SPEAKER_03:

I'd be very happy to. I've really enjoyed it. Thank you.

SPEAKER_02:

Good. Well, we will put your links in the show notes. And yeah, thank you ever so much for joining us today. And as ever, if you want to continue with the conversation, we of course have the far too fabulous Facebook group. So come in and talk to us about what did you hear? What are you going to change? What did you not agree with? Maybe we touched a few nerves there.

SPEAKER_01:

Yeah. What were those little voices in your head saying that you've been trying to ignore and now maybe you can't? We'd love to know. See you next week. Thank you so much for joining us today. We love creating this for you. We'll be back next week with another great episode.

SPEAKER_02:

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SPEAKER_01:

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SPEAKER_02:

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SPEAKER_01:

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