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Far 2 Fabulous
Join Catherine & Julie, your feisty hosts at Far 2 Fabulous, as they lead you on a wellness revolution to embrace your fabulousness.
Julie, a Registered Nutritional Therapist with over 20 years of expertise, and Catherine, a former nurse turned Pilates Instructor and Vitality Coach, blend wisdom and laughter seamlessly.
Off the air, catch them harmonising in their local choir and dancing to 80's hits in superhero attire. Catherine braves the sea for year-round swims, while Julie flips and tumbles in ongoing gymnastics escapades.
With a shared passion for women's health and well-being, they bring you an engaging exploration of health, life, and laughter. Join us on this adventure toward a more fabulous and empowered you!
Far 2 Fabulous
Beyond Burnout: Finding Well-being in a Chaotic World
What if managing anxiety could be as simple as asking for a special assistance lanyard at the airport? In this empowering episode of Far 2 Fabulous, we are thrilled to welcome the remarkable Ruth Cooper Dixon, an expert in positive psychology, trauma-informed well-being, grief coaching, and breathwork. We reminisce about our Instagram connection and shared swims in Whitstable while Ruth opens up about her journey from coping with panic attacks since age 19 to establishing her successful well-being consultancy. Through Ruth's candid stories, we explore the intense anxiety experienced in high-stress environments and the physical manifestations of these emotional struggles, emphasizing the significance of understanding and managing mental health.
Imagine feeling like an imposter in your own workplace despite all your achievements. Ruth and I break down the myths surrounding the imposter phenomenon, debunking the misconception that it primarily affects women. Our conversation sheds light on the irrational behaviours triggered by the fight-or-flight response during crises, like panic buying, and how these psychological patterns are often rooted in societal constructs. We reflect on the broader implications of workplace structures designed under patriarchal norms, underscoring the importance of self-compassion and recognizing mistakes as learning opportunities.
Navigating the challenges of balancing physical health issues with professional commitments can be daunting, especially during high-pressure times like Mental Health Awareness Month. Ruth shares her personal experience of managing a severe bladder infection while maintaining her work commitments, demonstrating vulnerability and unexpected supportiveness from her clients. We also discuss the necessity of creating a work environment that acknowledges individual strengths, particularly for those dealing with undiagnosed ADHD. Ruth’s insights into trauma-informed care and the importance of psychological safety provide valuable perspectives on personal growth, self-care, and the courage to pursue joy despite societal judgments. Tune in for an inspiring conversation that champions kindness towards oneself and the relentless pursuit of dreams.
Thank you so much to Ruth. Remember, you can find out more about Ruth and what she does on her website.
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10 quick & effective HIIT Pilates workouts Supportive FB group to keep you motivated Brand new routines, weights (optional!), & bonus meditation!
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Thank you for listening.
You can continue the conversation with us in the Far 2 Fabulous Facebook group. Come and connect with other women on a journey to empowered health.
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We look forward to you joining us on the next episode.
Welcome to Far Too Fabulous hosted by Julie and Catherine.
Speaker 2:Join us on a mission to embrace your fabulousness and redefine wellness. Get ready for some feistiness, inspiration, candy chats and humour as we journey together towards empowered wellbeing. Let's dive in. Hello, hello, everybody, and welcome back to the next episode of Far Too Fabulous, and we are absolutely thrilled to be joined by our very special guest, ruth Cooper Dixon.
Speaker 2:I'm going to let her tell you who she is and where she comes from. To me, she is my pal that I meet in the sea. She's a sea creature, and I was just telling Julie how we first met over Instagram when you were still living over in Essex and we were. I think that we had both kind of seen each other on Instagram through a post and I said, oh, I like the look of her. And you'd told me later on well, you like to look at me, and we connected up, and so when you came to Whitstable, we connected up and spent lots of time either in the sea or in Pafferson swimming pool. So I'm super grateful for that time, but I am also very grateful that you've come to join us here on the podcast. So do tell us who you are and where you come from.
Speaker 3:Well, I'm currently in Hertfordshire, um, so as, as you said, I'm Ruth Cooper Dixon and I'm a positive psychology practitioner, a trauma informed, well-being and grief coach, uh, breathwork instructor, that I have a whole list of qualifications and accolades, which is very lovely, uh, all hard work and earned. But, yeah, I miss the days of being in Whitstable and the seas, definitely, and we'll talk a little bit about wellbeing, but I think for me that practice is something that is right at the heart of who I am. And even being back last weekend, it was so wonderful to see you as well at Parkrun and, yeah, very special memories. So I suppose suppose you know where I came into this space. So I run a well-being consultancy which is going into its ninth year in october, which is quite it's quite a big achievement. I think.
Speaker 3:When I look back at my career today and this is the longest place I've ever worked which, having been diagnosed with adhd, the pure hyperactive impulsivity type, which is probably not a surprise when you know me is is like the longest place I've ever worked, because I just didn't really fit in in corporate life and tried so hard over those 20 odd years to fit and, interestingly, the places where I did really fit were places that were project focused. But yeah, so nine years this year and the business has gone through various reiterations because it should. I suppose you know how businesses grow and organic, and at different points I've had extra businesses where I've done work in the social enterprise space and yeah, so I started this company and it's now called Ruth Cooper Dixon because I'm clearly a narcissist, so just name the company after myself.
Speaker 2:It's all about me, it's all about you quite right.
Speaker 3:So I own your achievements. But, yeah, I came into this space because I went through my own lived experience in 2015. I went through a divorce and I didn't handle it particularly well. I was using coping strategies that are deemed to be really helpful exercise, healthy eating, throwing yourself into work as a distraction but all of those I took to the extreme. And I always say coping strategies, there's always a, there's always nuance, there's always a continuum, right. So you know, just the same way, that binging Netflix whatever you're watching at the moment, you know those days when we need that hideaway and we need that numbing out and we just need that head space just to be, is really helpful. But if you're doing that all the time, of course, it's not helpful. So you know that those coping strategies added into a melting pot really.
Speaker 3:And I'd always experienced panic attacks and I know we were chatting before we came on and I've had a mini, a small panic attack today. Sometimes they they can be absolutely horrific. But I've had panic attacks since I was 19 and I never told anybody about them. I mean, my mum kind of knew, but even back then we weren't really talking about them. And I know you you were a nurse, catherine. My mum was a not a mental health nurse, you know, um, and she felt bad that she didn't really know what was wrong. But back then again, we didn't talk about it, did we? It wasn't a thing. And so I I had this elaborate web of coping strategies and avoidance strategies that I used over, like from when I was 19, up until that point when I had a big it was what I call a meltdown, because I look like I've just got out of the shower in a couple of seconds. I just drip with sweat. I mean, that's just me, I'm just very sweaty anyway.
Speaker 2:I was gonna say did you have one of those just before I saw you at Parkrun as well?
Speaker 3:Because that's that was the 3K that I did before.
Speaker 2:It was very hot.
Speaker 3:That's what I mean. I've always been someone. You know. When they say women, women don't sweat, they perspire, I mean that's.
Speaker 3:Yeah whatever, yeah, whatever. I am literally disgusting and so it's no surprise that for me that's. You know, everyone's different when they experience panic attacks. For me it is that sweating. I do sometimes have something called depersonalization, where I don't know where I am or who I'm with, which is quite frightening not only for me but for people around me. And I don't really hyperventilate like people who think you know, with asthma, that kind of feeling, but that has happened once before on one of the overgrounds in in london. But generally I just get very sweaty very quickly, very shaky, almost like my blood sugar is, is kind of all out of whack. So I get that kind of real weak, faint feeling and I have passed out before as well with it in a supermarket, which is another story. But so I've got loads of stories about really random places where I've had absolutely horrific panic attacks. But this is the thing, and I suppose I had to work, and at work it was very traumatic, not only for me, it was traumatic for the people in the office.
Speaker 3:And when I came back to work, having had some time off, I was diagnosed with several anxiety disorders and panic disorders. One of them and only one in 100 people are diagnosed with panic disorder, because it's quite rare in that sense of you have panic attacks, sometimes without even feeling anxious or stressed. So it just comes on you the feeling and over the years I've worked so hard especially the last two or three years, I've worked very, very hard on my self-care that they are very, very infrequent. So they're usually now like every six months or so. I mean they used to be weekly or, you know, several times a month at least. So, yeah, so I came back into work and no one back in 2015, no one really knew what to say. It was almost like I'd been ill with some, you know, I'd been diagnosed with some terminal illness or someone had died, you know. No one just knew how to just ask if I was okay, probably the ones that I say the crazy lady in the office again, because it was traumatic. It must have been really traumatic for them as well.
Speaker 3:I don't think anyone else really. I don't know if anyone was really asked like how they. They dealt with that, but I just thought why are we not talking about this at work? It didn't. It didn't really make any sense and and when I started being and I just chose to be very open.
Speaker 3:You know me, I'm very open book and I felt that it just eradicated a lot of shame that I'd been holding on to for for a long, long time I mean most of my adult life. So, just having that freeing sense, and over the last nine years I've got to the point now where I don't apologize for it. If I feel it coming on, I'll say, or I'll just you know, it's every time it's never great the the balance of just being open and honest. So that's what took me into corporates and that's where I do all my work mostly, but work with one one-to-one with people. So I do coaching.
Speaker 3:I've moved into the grief space, which again an area we just don't know how to have good conversations about and how to support people going through bereavements and, yeah, it's just been a real journey. I feel like I've just now gone on for a very long time just talking about myself. So it's it's. I love it because there is, I think, what I love about running my own company and there's it's not for everybody and I know lots of people have gone back into the corporate space having had their own business.
Speaker 3:Um, because it's been really tough out there, you know, I mean, the pandemic for me was actually the opposite, because lots of organizations were investing in mental health and well-being to support people quite rightly and people that were furloughed.
Speaker 3:So I had a very busy couple of years then, although quite difficult, um and draining, but I genuinely love everything that I do. You know, the organizations I've worked with are big corporates who are really invested in their people and I've seen the changes they've made over like five, six, seven, eight years. When I've been. You know they come back and we work together. So I feel really proud about that and I love the variety. I love that no week looks the same, no day looks the same. There's always so many different things I can do and you know, when I have a message from somebody or someone talks to me after, you know I have people waiting to talk to me after I do a keynote or something and people say it's really helped them, or that makes them feel less alone, or they're going to get help, or that just makes it feel worthwhile yeah, without a doubt really interesting what you'd said about all your coping strategies from when you were 19 and probably earlier, if you look back at it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then suddenly being able to take the, the shroud and the shame off of that makes everything a million times easier I know, and even a couple of weeks ago I'd read about what's called the hidden disabilities sunflower lanyard that you wear.
Speaker 3:There's, according to the this, this is called the sunflower lanyard or the hidden disabilities sunflower, and it's a lanyard that you wear with sunflowers on it and it basically informs, wherever you are, that you may need support, whatever that might look like. But you know, if so, if you're having cancer treatment, for example, you could wear that because you might need extra support or anything that's invisible. That's you know. You know it's not a physical, um, you know a physical disability that someone can pick up on, and I'd read about it and I was traveling to Glasgow for work a few weeks ago from Luton Airport and I went.
Speaker 3:It was when it was really hot as well, and airports for me have always been massively triggering. I've had some horrific panic attacks a few weeks ago from Luton Airport and I went. It was when it was really hot as well, and airports for me have always been massively triggering. I've had some horrific panic attacks in airports. I mean they're, they're anxiety inducing anyway for most people in security. We all think we've done, we all think we've got like a gun off in our bag, like what happens if they find that thing that I've definitely not put in there? Did somebody else pack this for?
Speaker 2:you, I don't know, did they?
Speaker 3:exactly, I just accuse, and you know people, just I think obviously they're so intense so I think of energy like we, we kind of bounce off each other's energy, right, you know, people are rushing, people are trying to get places.
Speaker 3:It's just frenetic at times and so that's been hugely triggering. And so I'd gone to the special assistance desk. When I got there and I was already feeling really sweaty, um, and I don't know if it was just because I was just overthinking the fact I was asking for a lanyard, but they gave me one like they were so lovely, these two guys on the desk and then I was really, really sweaty and I thought, oh, and then I had this whole thing where I was trying to dry my top behind by perching backwards on the sink before I went through security and this woman came out the toilet, was looking at me really weirdly, and then, because it was like one of these fancy taps that has the water and the hand, uh, dry all in one, and somehow my bum activated the tap so I just actually just ended up spraying the.
Speaker 3:Moment so I was like, oh, sod this. So, um, just went to security. But that was really interesting because I noticed that security, the staff, everybody was clocking it and when I went, yeah, everyone was just really really helpful. I got to go to fast track security as well. So that was something completely new that I'd never even come across.
Speaker 3:And just to ask and I think again it's it's asking for that help, and I've always been someone that's been like I can do it on my own, I can do it on my own, I can do it on my own. And that gets me into trouble more times sometimes. And I think, just saying I might need this and it's, it's more that if I I love the idea of it because it's just if I feel like I need that help, I could go to somebody and not have to explain six million reasons why I might not be feeling okay if they just clocked the lanyard. But everyone from you know I could sense it as I was walking up to the gate and when I was on the plane and people were just you know you could sense people, you know, clocking it.
Speaker 1:I haven't even heard of this.
Speaker 2:No, I haven't, but you saying that. Now I actually know somebody that wears one, and I didn't realise that's what it was.
Speaker 1:No, it's really good to know this information.
Speaker 3:And, if you go on, I did a whole post on LinkedIn that had like went quite virally and it was like, yeah, there was like thousands of people that had looked at it and commented and people had re-shared it and Luton Airport had re-shared it as well. But so many people I didn't know this existed, or my you know somebody commented that at the weekend say, my son has one, but we use it for theme parks and actually I never thought of using it at the airport and I was like, oh, I never thought of using it elsewhere outside the airport so that's what we think of the different.
Speaker 3:You know where we might need that help, so it makes so much sense.
Speaker 1:I mean not that this is related, but it kind of is. But my daughter is big time into horse riding and we went to watch the horse riding at hickstead and she was telling me that, oh, that pony's got a red ribbon in its tail because it kicks, and that one's got a yellow ribbon because it's nervous, and we, that's great for horses, we should do this for people.
Speaker 3:But it's already been done, so yeah and I think I think it came about. I think someone was telling me it may have come about because of the pandemic. And if, what people were not wearing masks, for example, and the reason why they weren't wearing them, you know, if it was for health reasons or, you know, anxiety reasons, that's why they weren't wearing one. So, yeah, it's really fascinating, isn't it? So, again, it's just learning those tools, not only the coping strategies, but also, I think there's just those tools which support you as as well as I think for me, the biggest part, which I say to everybody, is the minute I stop trying to stop the panic attack and the minute I started to, I won't say live with them, but although they'll happen, they'll happen. So how do I speak? You know if you what I used to do? I wouldn't say live with them, but although they'll happen, they'll happen. So how do I speak to? You know if you, what I used to do is have a panic attack and then spend a large amount of time.
Speaker 3:This this links in to kind of thinking about imposter phenomenon, but also the endocritic. I spent like a long time afterwards talking to myself like dirt about why I was so weak and what's wrong with me and why can't you be normal and why are you so stressed and and just reinforcing negative neural pathways and just myself like I'm a piece of dirt that I wouldn't dream of saying to anybody else? So 20 years worth of unlearning, that of just going. Actually it's my body, like the same way someone has a migraine or the same way somebody might have an upset tummy if they're stressed or if a diabetic has needs their insulin or something happens there. But you you don't physically beat yourself up about it's your body doing body things and my brain's just doing its thing, right, so yeah, oh god, I so relate to that.
Speaker 2:I remember like the beginning of oh not the beginning of my anxiety, but that reminds me. I completely relate to what your mum felt about being a nurse and not recognising it, because I was a nurse and I didn't recognise it in myself. So I get that you wouldn't recognise it necessarily in somebody else, especially in women and girls who get so good at masking. Um, yeah, all of these, like all of these symptoms, because even from a young age we're supposed to cope, aren't we, and just be as we, as we as we are. But I remember sitting in the doctor's office saying why can't I cope with this? Everybody else can cope with life. Why can't I cope with life? There must be something wrong with me and it was yeah. And as soon as you start sort of peeling off those layers and yeah, shedding the shame and I don't know, it's just yeah, some sort of degree of acceptance, then it just doesn't have that power over you any longer his name now because it um, it would be good to give him the credit for it.
Speaker 1:But he was a brain neuro doctor of some kind and he was saying anxiety is normal. People that don't have anxiety are not normal. When you've got anxiety, it's literally your system saying, um, I need to be hyper alert, I need to be aware there could be danger. And he said that is normal. So if if you're, if you've got anxiety, you're normal. The rest of them are.
Speaker 3:On that, was brilliant, and that's quite funny, because sometimes it's rare and I could probably count maybe that's probably off the top of my head maybe three or four times in my whole career so far in this space where I've I've done workshops or talks or whatever. And if we're talking about anxiety there's been a couple of people who've just gone I don't get anxiety, I'm thinking, okay, right, you've definitely got some issues, because I've got no anxiety about anything ever. I'm like, oh, um, okay, because, like you're right, we're all. It's how we're hardwired, right as keep, it's the one part of our brain that's been there since prehistoric times. So you know, we've been evolving as a human.
Speaker 3:So the fact we, you know, I'd always say that, you know, when we saw the pandemic and panic buying and people were like, oh, you know, why are people putting? Taking all the toilet roll and the pasta? But actually that was just a. I mean, that was kind of like a social case study, a fight or flight, right, people were picking, they wanted to protect themselves, make sure they're okay, survival of the fittest, which again is kind of what we're hardwired for of. I just need to protect, I'm panicking about this. So it's uh, it for them it was a fight response.
Speaker 3:Right, I'm gonna get everything that I need to look after me and you can't really judge people, because it's kind of like how their brain is hardwired yeah, oh, my goodness, I'd forgotten about the toilet rolls in the past toilet rolls, and I remember I, you know I remember being in the Tesco around the corner from where I lived in um, I was still in Shepherd's Bush because it was locked down once it was before I moved to Southend. And I remember going into the supermarket and there was one loaf of bread left and I didn't need any bread. I was living alone. I'd got some bread but I was like, well, I don't know, I can buy bread.
Speaker 3:Next, I'm going to take this loaf of bread and I still remember that, thinking there's one loaf of bread. I best take this loaf of bread because it may not be any more bread, I don't, you know, and just having that rush, that quite rational logic, but actually it wasn't really rational at all the funny thing is you consciously knew that it wasn't logical which is a lot of the time we do right our prefrontal cortex, the front part of our brain.
Speaker 3:it tells us, like the sensible things that we know, but then there's part of you know, the other parts of our brain overrides that, the you know, the emotions or the panic, as you said, like it's like, oh god, I've got, but yeah, what happens if? And that's the anxiety piece, it's the unknown, right, it's the fear of the unknown or what could happen. So I had enough bread to last me several weeks being alone and you could have managed without bread.
Speaker 1:I could have managed without bread.
Speaker 3:for sure, I might be from the Midlands, but I don't mop all my gravy up with bread.
Speaker 2:I'm just thinking about.
Speaker 3:That's a miserable existence without bread. No one needs.
Speaker 2:No one needs that. Oh, I have had the pleasure of being at one of your talks. You came respect to my business women unlimited group, which was amazing, and you did speak about imposter phenomenon and it has. I mean, I'd heard about I often and you're gonna you're gonna tell us why we're not going to call it a syndrome as well, because I often correct people. It's one of my favorite things. It does get called a syndrome?
Speaker 1:it does, but it's.
Speaker 2:The phrase is kind of banded around a lot, and particularly in spaces where people own their own businesses, and particularly women. Do you think more? Um? So yeah, tell us a bit more about that.
Speaker 3:So the reason, the reason it shouldn't be called imposter syndrome. So the the definition, the actual academic definition of imposter phenomenon is the internal experience of intellectual phoniness. And the piece of research is as old to the year as me. It's not, it was from 1978, that's when the first piece of research was done on this and it was done by. It was carried out by two women scientists, clance and um imez imez I think that's how it's pronounced, and they did a study and the study happened to be on successful business women, high performing women. And Clance said it's not a syndrome because two things One, it's it's not a syndrome because it's not. It's not a mental health condition or disorder. So a syndrome is a collection of symptoms. So it's not that disorder. So a syndrome is a collection of symptoms. So it's not that, although it can affect imposter syndrome and can affect your well-being, but of course it's not a mental health condition, it's not a psychological disorder. Um, and she said I don't want it to be called a syndrome because I don't want it to be something else that women think that they have to fix, and this was 1978. Think that they have to fix, and this was 1978. What great words there. So equally. We know now from all the research that has been done in this space which a lot more has been done that men and women do experience it fairly, equally. And as a coach I've definitely come across men, those identified as men I've had, you know, share that they've experienced it. And even in high performing cultures like law firms, I've had very senior people in law men tell me that they've experienced it in their careers as well.
Speaker 3:So I think it's because it's just, you know, syndrome makes it sound like there's something wrong with you. Going back to that whole like, taking it on as it's, it's something that's got to be fixed, that it just affects women, which it doesn't. And then also, I think there's something about that. You know, how do we kind of actually in some spaces particularly as you said there, julia, with like women often, where workplaces are designed for men's patriarchy and women having a seat at the table and all this idea, but actually if you're blocked from that, then you can only do so much regardless anyway. So I think there's something about the intersectionality of like where we might be marginalized if we, you know, we remain, we're thinking it's something we've got to change and do the work on, but actually, especially in an organization context, it's the organization it's systemic that needs to do the work on, but actually, especially in an organization context, it's the organization it's systemic that needs to do the work to make it more inclusive. So I think there's also this idea of, yes, we can overcome imposter phenomenon and think about it from what we can do in that elements base, but also where it's organizational focus. Actually actually what is the organisation? Because you can, you can do as much as you can, right, but at the end of the day, if you're not allowed a seat at the table, if you're not supportive, if you're not mentored, if the culture is toxic, then you're not going to be able to change that. So that requires allies, champions and everybody else to do that and everybody else to do that.
Speaker 3:So I think in the past it was very much about you know, you think about Cheryl what's the name? Who was the Facebook, the COO, who wrote the lean in book, which was great for women to think about. How do you empower yourself and take that seat at the table and take that ownership and take that charge? That also comes at a cost at women in terms of you know them constantly pushing that, that and also, sometimes, how much of that can we affect and change? We, we can only do what we can do it. It requires that space to do it.
Speaker 3:So there's a lot, I think, and it's it's one of those. It's very clickbaity, isn't it? You know, if there's an article, imposter phenomenon, you know five ways you can overcome your imposter phenomenon. Like, oh, what can I do to make? And we've all got it, we've all got that fit like goes back to anxiety what we were just saying.
Speaker 3:Right, there's, there's always a fear of when you know, when you start a new job, when you go for a promotion, when you're doing a stretch objective, whether that's in your own business or whether that's you're in a corporate or um, you decide to go off on your own and become self-employed, and all of these things. We can compare ourselves and look around the table you know the hypothetical table and just go oh, you know you're doing better than me and I wonder how you know I'm not as good, and all of those feelings and actually some of it. It's all about the inner work as well, that you know what we have to do for ourselves. So, yes, you, I'm so glad that you correct people. I love it when I correct people on that. It's one of my.
Speaker 2:I've got a list of things I jump in and tell people off about, so that's one yeah, definitely, and I mean, I suppose, as like with social media, it makes it much, much harder because you can see yeah, well, you can. I was gonna say you can see how everybody is doing, but actually you can only see what they're showing you, and they're only showing you the good bits.
Speaker 1:I like that saying you know the one don't compare your insides with other people's outsides yeah, and people don't put right, you know people don't put.
Speaker 3:I've had a really tough month and lost money this month, or my business didn't do as well this year as it did the last eight years, or, um, I just did a talk and I completely messed it up. You know there's it's rare you see things like that, right, I think, especially in the business world. I think corporates, we start we're seeing more people talk about stuff like that, but I think business owners, entrepreneurs we give this really glossy. Like this is great and I'm living my best life and, yes, there's lots of benefits to all of that, but also it's really hard, like it is. It's so, you know it's, it's just, it is. It's hard work and you can quite easily.
Speaker 3:You know I I did some work a few years ago where I had to unfollow or mute, should I say, people I was following on Instagram who I really respect and like, but also they were. It was making me feel worse. Yeah, so hang on a second. Why are you doing this to yourself? And again it goes back to what's wrong with me, instead of actually fixing the problem. Again, well, I could, just, I could just mute these people so I don't see their posts, oh that, so that was good.
Speaker 3:And then there was this idea of well, I sort of journaled out why it was all the reasons that I thought they were better than me or I wasn't as good, and just kind of got under some of the skin of like, what is, what am I? What's really going off here? What is this really about? Um, and we can just, we can just spend your whole time, couldn't you, comparing yourself to other people and wanting what they have? And actually, is that what you want? Do you even want what they've got? And if and if you think what they've got is great, is it going to be great when you get that? Is that, is that going to fix whatever's going off for you? Quite often that isn't the case either, right?
Speaker 2:So no, absolutely. Yeah, it's, it's so interesting and I and I hope that, as the as the conversations around, around things like mental health or around things like self care and like and you've said you've seen already seen a massive difference when you come back to companies, I'm hoping that again, as we peel those layers back and there's no shame in saying that actually you know we didn't do very well this, this month or this year or what have you that perhaps this becomes less and less because we don't, we don't feel the, the shame in in telling people what, the, what the real picture looks like yeah, I think there's this.
Speaker 3:Yeah, there's different characteristics of imposter phenomenon, whether that's, you know, fear and guilt. Yeah, you could have fear and guilt about having success and some some of this stuff is quite childhood or early adolescence related. You know your upbringing and what you were told you were supposed to be good at, and you know, I still know that I definitely look to my parents and say am I making you proud? Which is kind of like almost 46 you're doing it at 53, don't worry so needing to be the best.
Speaker 3:But one of them is fear of failure and I definitely had that in May. I was rushed to hospital at the beginning of May. The first bank holiday weekend, the Friday, I was rushed to hospital with bladder infection and May is my busiest month because it's mental health awareness month in the US. It's mental health awareness week in the UK, uh, usually the second week of May, so it's like the 13th. I was booked solid. I was also flying to being flown to Washington for work, um and um going to the states to work with leaders. I was going to Jersey to do a keynote. I mean I was here, there and everywhere and I was rushed to hospital.
Speaker 3:I had these horrific antibiotics which I had all the side effects on the back off. They just really just made me really poorly and I'd been always been really good at being open about mental health, but I never really had to be open about an impact of physical health and there was this real worry. I mean all the clients I was working with in that time were, on the whole, clients I've worked with a long time and every client when I told them because I was open and I had a bit of a fear of will. They think I'm really rubbish at what I'm going to do. And every client said to me do you want to reschedule every single client? Which is again why I work with these people, because if they'd have gone, well, do it anyway. That wouldn't be the right ethos along the lines of well-being. So everyone was like Ruth, if you need to cancel, we'll reschedule, like whatever you need, even the, even the trip to the US. And um, I was like, no, no, I can do it, but I just wanted to let you know.
Speaker 3:And even the keynote I was in Jersey and it was probably when I was feeling at my worst and I remember I, you know, I was just really hot, I wasn't great and I had to keep sitting down during the keynote because it was an hour long, so it was a bit of a it was kind of like more of a talk as well and, um, I had to go to bed afterwards for a couple of hours. I was just so wiped. But again, I had people waiting to talk to me and people said it was really good and and I realized that I could still be as good, even when I'm only 80 percent. Nothing changed.
Speaker 3:Obviously your wisdom doesn't go up, you know you don't, unless you're having something wrong with your memory. But I still was the same person, I still knew the same stuff and I think in my mind's eye, because for me success equaled as me feeling six hundred dollars, six hundred million dollars jumping around a stage, being really hyper, and because I was a bit calmer and grounded and I was obviously slower and physically slower, but that was the only thing and I was. There was a real sense around I had to. That was a big light bulb moment for me that I could be as good even when I don't physically feel as good, and that.
Speaker 3:But there was a real sense of failure before that, like going into that which, again, you could tell yourself all those stories, couldn't you? And it would have been easier to, and I also know I could have cancelled, but I also thought I can, I felt well enough to do it. But then there was that there is that tipping point, isn't? This again goes back to having your own company. If I was in a corporate, would I have pulled out if someone else could have stepped in and done it, or if it didn't really matter someone else, you know? But I think when again, it's when it's your business and you care and you're it's your livelihood, isn't it? So that is also a real, that's a real well-being dilemma about what do I do here this.
Speaker 1:So, and we've had this a lot ourselves, haven't we? You know, we're not infallible. We've had things going on and we've had to, which annoys us, right it?
Speaker 1:does we do get rather annoyed, but you know, we are human sometimes and and not just 100 perfect. But yeah, I've done consultations when I've been really ill and I've just done the consultation and then gone to bed, back to bed, or whatever it is. I know you've done exercise classes when you've not been feeling great, but there is a part of that, that is, you are the only person running your business, so it is trying to get the balance as well, isn't it? Yeah, it's, and it's so hard and I think it was.
Speaker 3:I think what was really lovely was that the theme was movement here in the UK for mental health awareness week, so I could actually talk really vulnerably and I always talk about like a 0 to 10 scale I'm actually posting about it on Instagram tonight that I sometimes ask people I've used it a lot in the past when I've not been able to really understand what my emotions are. But on a scale of 0 to 10, how are you feeling today? And some people that's quite a useful barometer right where their mental health is at. So I, you know I started this talk in Jersey by saying usually, if I ask this question, I'd say yeah, I think my mental health's actually pretty good. You know, I'm pleased to be here. I'm feeling good about, you know, life in general.
Speaker 3:But if you ask me how my physical health is right now, it's probably, like you know, a three or a two out of ten and everyone was just, like you know, just sat back and was a bit shocked and I was like I'm being really vulnerable here, but I'm not well. You know I'm not great. I really wanted to be here to do this talk. I do want to let you down and, and also I think it's important and I'm just going to take it at my own pace. Today and I don't know again, people love when, like you, your point, you were, we're all human and this idea of oh, that person showed some vulnerability and I had a queue of people waiting to talk to me afterwards yeah, I think every time you show vulnerability, you actually get a very good response.
Speaker 1:And yet how many times do we not want to show that? And yeah, it's.
Speaker 2:It's weird, isn't it? You're thinking about all those people in the audience that would have identified with exactly how you're feeling and this is it.
Speaker 3:I think my expertise didn't disappear. I could still do this. I was still talking about what I was doing. You know, that's all okay. So I think this, yeah, this in a critic, and I'm much I have. I have really worked hard and I know that I've, you know, done a lot of this. Of course it doesn't make it, it doesn't eradicate it completely. It's just you're more aware of when you're catching yourself, you're talking to yourself in that way and being able to stop it early on, rather than finding yourself in that thought process of I'm really rubbish at this or I'm. It's like I'm not, I'm no good, and and those stories that you start to tell yourself.
Speaker 3:I've just qualified yesterday as a radio presenter for my local radio. Another hat that I'm wearing, congratulations. I'm hopefully getting my show. It should be announced very shortly. It's really exciting and it's it's been a dream.
Speaker 3:I've got this big dream and I went out start of this year and applied. I have a dream to be on classic FM one day. That's my goal. And at the start of this year my coach said to me what are you going to do? And I said I've got no classical music expertise and I've got no broadcast experience. So she says what are you going to do? I said I'm going to go and, um, I'm going to apply for a job on a radio station. She's, and I, I did and I applied for a breakfast show presenter and I've been going through that process and with no, no experience whatsoever in radio. That's brilliant. I did a live hour yesterday so I was listening to it just actually before I jumped on, before I had the panic attack. I had to stop playing it. Um, it wasn't because I was listening to myself but, I've been really so.
Speaker 3:Last week, when I did the hour, fully unsupported, I mean, they, you know, they put me in the deep end. But they said we think you can do it. And I listened to myself and there was a few and actually I was like this is good, this is good, this is brilliant. I love that. Oh, you missed this, you didn't do that. Oh, I don't like when you use that phrase and I for the first time ever I think this is the first time I've looked at myself learning something new that I've no knowledge about. That's completely out of my comfort zone. I've never done it before and actually been really kind to myself and gone. Yeah, these bits were brilliant and these bits weren't. But you're learning and that's okay. Like you've been doing it two hours of it, you know so, yeah, oh, the compassion.
Speaker 3:I can hear the compassion for you, for yourself, there, and there's no mistakes, they're just, they're just learning points for you yeah, I mean, like they said to me yesterday after I did an hour and things messed up and went wrong and the plan was I was going to do it and they were going to support me if I, if I need that support, I'm pressing the you know the buttons and then I'm doing it all and, um, they said there's no such thing as a perfect like, there's no such thing as a perfect show Like. There's no, there's no, there's nothing that's perfect. Right, because we're all human. Yeah, so there's going to be an element of you mess up, you say something, you think, oh, why did I do that? Or that button went weird, or that tech went weird, or that's just normal. And even if you listen to the greats on radio, you hear them forget to turn their mics down, or they say something, or they mess up, or they've swore or they did something. It happens because we're human.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I mean that's, I think that's why we like things, like like radio and live things, isn't it?
Speaker 3:because because you actually get the, the human, yeah, and so but this is genuinely the first time I can remember where I've done something so, so different and new and and it's been, it's been really good, because I think it's just, it's lended itself to all the other stuff that I do. And then you think, oh, why did I, why did I not do that, or how it's how we talk to ourselves, isn't it? That inner critic is a big part of that and we've all the majority of us have got one, because it's what keeps us safe. It's our brain. It doesn't like the fear, it doesn't like change, but it can really play into that imposter phenomenon. And just being kind, like compassion, as you said, compassion means to suffer with, as a word, and the idea of self-compassion is just sitting with yourself and going, well, yeah, didn't do that right, or but everyone's learning, and I'm learning this rather than why are you so rubbish? I can't believe you mess that up, ruth. You're an idiot and you know which is not helpful, is it so?
Speaker 1:no, I cannot believe this conversation just went that way. We're just talking about like imposter stuff and then suddenly she's a radio presenter.
Speaker 1:I know you know that the reason that, one of the reasons that we're doing this, is because that's what, uh, julie wanted to do that's what I wanted to do when I, when I was at school, I went to the careers people and I said I want to be a radio one dj and they said you can't because your voice is too common you see and I'm sorry that happened to you, because that was I did as my my newsletter two weeks ago was on dusting off your dreams and I wrote about I always wanted to do right, I always wanted to entertain, like that was my thing, whether it was drama.
Speaker 3:I was good at school at drama, but no one really harnessed that. And when I went to the careers, it was almost like you get a job for life, like don't. I went to work at Rolls-Royce, which is no back then was known as a job for life. It's where I grew up. Yeah, it's a big company, it was local and that's where I went as a secretary at 19. But there was that thing about wanting to perform. And the last this year as well, I've been working with actors. I've been working on a workshop where we're performing to 200 employees at a time on stage. I've been working with actors who are on, who are in theatre, commercials, tv, everything so professional actors, and I just was like this year. I was like I really want to do. The things that bring me joy are things I've always wanted to do, and what's stopping you and that's what I say to you too is about like, what's stopping you from having a go no, there's nothing stopping me, hence the podcast.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it, yeah it's incredible and I what I'd love to know, so loads of the strategies that you have talked about today, like you were talking about, like, how do I feel today, like one to ten, physically or mentally? Are these things that you have created before you had your ADHD diagnosis?
Speaker 3:so the one to ten I've had for nine years, because I learned that in therapy, because I went straight into therapy when I was, when I had my big meltdown, as I call it, in 2015, so that stayed with me. Journaling has stayed with me, you know, from a positive psychology perspective. There's so much research on expressive writing, writing I'm currently doing the artist's way by Julia Cameron, that's the morning pages like you write three, three pages in your journal every morning. I'm doing this through this group and and just having some focus around. So I find journaling the check-in, um. I definitely use breath, work more, um, and use that not only professionally but just for myself. I've always used breath and meditation. They've been big, big parts of that um, and then you know how do I look after myself is, as you know, it's like the exercise.
Speaker 3:So, and that's also been really interesting this year because in May, when I was unwell and then everything that happened with my bladder, I went, went to my local GP and they were like, well, you can't run. And I did a trail marathon in April and I was supposed to do my first ultra trail marathon in July and they were just like you can't, well, you're going to be out for a while, so there's no way you're going to be able to pick up your training to do it in time. So I pulled out of that. I've got the Chicago marathon in October. So that's the fourth world, my fourth world major marathon. So there's six at the moment, if you get your special star. So I've got Tokyo and Boston left.
Speaker 3:So my life goal, even when I'm like 80, I want to get still try and get the other two. But so that's. Chicago marathon is in October. So that's kind of what I. I do them every. So I did one in 2007, 2016, 2019. So I always leave a bit of a gap between, because I'm not a big fan of road, road running anymore. I love trails.
Speaker 2:I've noticed you picked that up yeah, I love it.
Speaker 3:I love just being. I think it's my here in the Chilterns as well it's, and I will see. When I was down um in Whitstable last weekend I went out with the Whitstable road runners and some of us went over to Dover on the Sunday and did a 10 mile trail, which was great fun with a local club there. But I like being outdoor. I think it's the outdoorsy nature side. So I think that's why you know, nothing for me replaces the sea or being in the lake or you know anything in water I'm great with as well. So I just like being outdoors. I've realized that's a big part of me and people. It's funny I saw I went to a family wedding at the weekend just gone and my cousin said oh, your photos of Whitstable. You could tell you look really happy there from last weekend just by how you're, you know, on your pictures. And again, it's just, yeah, you know, I like. I like being by the sea. I like being outdoors.
Speaker 2:So that relative is very clever. I think what she's saying is come back to.
Speaker 1:Whitstable.
Speaker 3:You know what? I don't think it'll be long before I'm back. I do. I do miss it. But the trails here I'm so close to literally the boundary line and the Chiltern, like the Chiltern.
Speaker 2:So it's just under my back door so that for me is like my second, it's my go-to. Yeah, oh, that's, that's amazing. The reason I asked you about the like, the coping things that you're doing, because I've been, I've been looking into various things about ADHD and lots of this, lots of the techniques to help you, are things that you have already kind of created in your life.
Speaker 3:It's funny because the psychiatry said to me when I was diagnosed it's really fascinating because you've managed to put in coping strategies which you didn't even know why you were doing them, like, for example, running is a big one for dopamine release, for adhd, which makes sense, and just how I structure my days and how I work and yeah, so that's been, that's been really insightful. Um, and currently I've been on the waitlist at the moment for an autism assessment because, again, I think you know you mentioned earlier Catherine, women, girls, particularly learn to mask very early on. I was on a trail run with the trail marathon I did in April. There was a GP on there on that run and she was telling me she's gone. She had an older son who was autistic as well as ADHD, but we were chatting and she wasn't kind of consulting me but she just said you, you're clearly very, very smart and intelligent. So as a child, you you probably learned to mask very, very quickly.
Speaker 3:As and as a girl, you would have gone under the radar and, to be fair, everyone just thought I was talkative, disruptive, wanted to be center of attention, drama queen, too much all of these things when clearly I just couldn't sit, sit still for more than two minutes at school.
Speaker 3:But if I was a boy I definitely would have my mum said you would have been classed as the naughty child. But because I was a girl and I was good, got good grades and I did my work I even know when I did my work, but I managed to do my work it went under the radar, I think, and I went to a very liberal secondary school where you were very much accountable for your own learning. So I think, because I found these strategies early on, there was no question. As long as I was doing good work and got the grades, they didn't really care how I showed up at school, which I think was good. In some ways, I think if I'd gone back then, if I'd gone to more of a disciplinary school, I would have probably been AWOL a lot of the time. So I think that's probably it was the best place for me to properly learn.
Speaker 2:To be honest, yeah, no, that's really lucky. I think that's and I mean, I think that's one of the reasons I think we work for ourselves is because we get to kind of create the environment and we play to our strengths and we I mean, unfortunately, we do have to do some of the rubbish things we have to do like paper- apparently yeah, yeah and it is.
Speaker 3:It's just creating like space in the diary and knowing like when. I think this is also why I had a team before, and last year was when I changed everything, because I realized being a people as much as I love people, working with people, working with clients, once I not agree, I don't feel that I'm a good people manager. I think that added extra layers of, like you know, having to turn up at certain times for team meetings and one-to-ones, which are really important, but again, for my brain, just didn't work. Yeah, so I feel much happier this year in the business that I've created, but it takes time to realize that, doesn't it? It's again you. You still set up your business with an expectation of what other people think it should look like, or, if you've been in the corporate world, like what a business should look like and instead of making your own rule book up or throwing the rule book out and making it how you want, yeah, it's so true.
Speaker 1:I know that we could keep talking and talking to you. I know, um, but I must just ask you a question about trauma before we kind of, you know, wrap things up, because you started off by saying that you know you work with people with trauma. Do you? Do you find that people have similar traumas? Do people not realize that they've got trauma? What? What does it mean to work with people with trauma?
Speaker 3:so I work, so I'm trauma. I guess there's two things here. One is I'm trauma informed. I've been a lot of training around trauma in organizations and I'm very fortunate that I've been on trainings that are actually designed for counselors or therapists or psychotherapists, where they the psychiatrist who's running a psychologist that's running it knows my limitations, they know I'm not a clinician, so I've been more listening in and learning from a psychoeducation perspective. So, and also because I work in mental health first aid, I suppose I've got that, those broader shoulders where I've been able to deal with mental health crisis and I know how to do that. So trauma informed for me is about, you know, if I'm setting up a workshop, if I'm in an organization for a couple of days training, or if I'm working one-to-one with somebody, I'm really mindful about how I create that space and create it with psychological safety in mind and make sure people feel comfortable and also not diving into areas that's going to traumatize somebody. So really mindful of that. So that's kind of what I mean by being trauma informed and then working.
Speaker 3:I always say that I don't work on people's trauma, I work with people's trauma. So for four years I ran a social enterprise, which I closed last year, but basically we were doing two things. One, we had a team of volunteers as well. We were coaching women who'd experienced domestic abuse, violence or trauma. I was working with humanitarian aid workers out in the field. So clearly, those people were experienced, or had experienced, trauma or vicarious trauma, particularly with the humanitarian aid workers. So seeing other people go through traumatic situations, so coaching them, but we're recognizing that that is in the room, or they're definitely coming with that in the room.
Speaker 3:Quite often, though, you're right, trauma is about how we perceive what's happened to us and how we utilize it, which is why all three of us could go through something together and it would affect could affect us completely differently based on where we're at right now, how we process that, what's going off for us.
Speaker 3:So I what I like to do is is to create those spaces where people that haven't experienced trauma, you know, that's why you know work with people that are going through grief or bereavement, especially if you've gone through a traumatic bereavement.
Speaker 3:So, um, you know, if someone's gone through something that's very traumatic around um, losing someone close to them. Obviously all bereavement is traumatic, but you know, for example, bereaved by suicide um is an example. So how, as a grief coach, how do you work in that space and then not re-traumatize that person, but very conscious that it's there and also recognizing from a trauma-informed perspective which is really good that lots of us get to the point in adulthood where we've experienced things, whether it's you know, there's this phrase of little t trauma or big t trauma. I mean trauma's trauma. I think it's like how we identify with it. So, just being mindful that that can bubble up, especially when you're doing deep, what we think is, you know, is it could be safe and say safe activity but actually could start to bring up stuff for people and being mindful that people carry that whether they're aware of it or not. So that answers your question, julie yes, thank you.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's brilliant.
Speaker 3:Yeah, and I bet, with the with the breath work as a, as another string to your bow, that's a a huge thing to to help, yeah it is and I think this again, it's recognizing what you know, where I do it, one to quite often I do it one-to-one and people will do that because it's a transformational breathwork. It's the holotropic breathwork is the classworks, the classroom stuff. So it's where you do the mouth breathing and you know you can have those transcendental experiences or emotional outbursts or things come front of mind and it's breathwork. That type of breathwork is great. For if you're not, you know you don't want to go to a therapist or counselor or you want to. You know you want to try other methods of releasing. You know we know now there's more research like the body keeps the score. Our body traps energy, trauma within the body in different parts. So it's a good way to release that.
Speaker 3:But you could do that in a space where the person I think is not qualified or able to support somebody. You know, quite often I have people, especially one-to-one, who might want to. I basically say, until you're ready to talk and you talk at me, I'm not going to say anything, and then you hear all sorts of things and it's again knowing how you can hold that space. That's safe for them and you, which, again, I think breath work. You have to be so careful because, again, it's it's like coaching, isn't it? There's no regulation around coaching unless you're accredited or if you've got those you know I know, catherine, we spoke about this before in the past as well. You can end up doing harm to others without, without that intention, or even harming yourself, right. So?
Speaker 2:powerful, powerful stuff. I was very excited when I saw you doing your breathwork training as well, because, oh, just, the more people that even know it exists, the better as far as I'm concerned. Exactly, yeah, so exciting. Thank you so so much. When did you say you're doing your marathon?
Speaker 3:It's October the 12th, the Sunday. Is that the Sunday? Oh no, it's the 30th, whatever that weekend is. So October the 10th, the Thursday, 11th, 12th, 13th October the 13th.
Speaker 2:Good luck with that. That's going to be absolutely incredible. Is the training going all right, yeah?
Speaker 3:it is actually, I think, because I'd already done a marathon earlier on this year, a trail marathon, so it's obviously I'm running a lot longer. I think it's not faced me, having had some time out and to be honest with with these, I'm not looking for a time, I just I want to go get around it and but enjoy it and I'm not there to kind of break any like for me, any kind of like. Oh, I want to get a sub four or all of them. All my marathons have been four hours four minutes to four hours 20 minutes. So if I come somewhere amongst that, then that's fine. But as my friend who's running it and she is an ambassador for sports tours and she has chronic health problems, and she said to me, ruth, the way that I see it is, the longer we're out running on the road, the more fun we're going to have. So I think that's like I love that idea of it.
Speaker 2:It's a true story. I think I've heard Helen Hall say that as well, and it's absolutely true, so I'm going to stick to that as well. As my marathon took over five hours, so you did Brightonon, didn't you? Yeah you did brighton and we're probably going to be doing london next year, so um you said that now, I know I know we are actually. We need to start training because we're doing the folks in half uh, which my sister informs me is actually only a couple of months time, so I need to it is I.
Speaker 3:That was the last I did that. That's where I broke my. I finally managed to break my older age sub two. I got one hour 59 by the skin of my teeth, literally that it's uh. It was a hot day as well, so that was 2022 that I did. Folkestone half it's a good. It's a good, half I'm.
Speaker 2:I'm hoping, apparently the the big hill that's notorious in it yes, there's supposed to be road works on it, so they might not be doing it. I'm like, please, please, keep road working.
Speaker 3:That's what killed me at the end. I was just like, because you've run down it at the start, you think, oh my goodness, I want to get back up that. And I mean, god, no, I really wanted to break some too, and that was what I was saying. It was just not long after I left Whitstable. It was like and I think that was it.
Speaker 2:You came back down, for I remember now yeah yeah has Chicago got hills, I think.
Speaker 3:Chicago, from what I remember because I visited.
Speaker 2:Chicago, it's fairly flat. I think, oh, that'd be all right. Then I'm just I, yeah, I, in my head, I keep thinking, because I'm, I've got London in my mind to train for, which is relatively flat, and Brighton really blooming isn't I'm thinking, oh yeah, it'd be much easier, but actually I've got to get through Folkestone first. That's a good one. Yeah, I feel like that. I think, oh, amazing, ruth, will you please tell everybody where they can find you? And also, I'm going to make sure that you are in our far too fabulous Facebook group, so if anyone's got any questions, that they can post them in there to keep the conversation going. But where can they come and stalk you?
Speaker 3:it's really easy because, again, I've just used my name. So Instagram is Ruth Cooper Dixon and that's the ICK SON. So Ruth at Ruth Cooper Dixon and that's D-I-C-K-S-O-N. So Ruth at Ruth Cooper Dixon is just Instagram and my website's called surprise, ruthcooperdixoncom. Easy, nice and easy, yeah. So as long as you put the name right, I'll come up. So, yeah, that's the best place to find me. Oh, brilliant.
Speaker 2:Amazing. I can't wait for lots of people to be able to come and follow you and learn from you, because I love all your social media posts as well, so keep them coming. Thank you, lovely, amazing. Thank you so much. Bye. Thank you for keeping us company today. If you enjoyed the podcast, don't forget to subscribe and leave a review. Your support helps us on our mission to reach a thousand women in our first year, so share with your friends and family. You might just change your life. Connect with us on social media and make your life easier by joining our podcast, ladies.
Speaker 1:You'll find the links in the show notes.
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