Far 2 Fabulous

Tribute to Dr. Michael Mosley: Fasting and the Fight Against Type 2 Diabetes

• Julie Clark & Catherine Chapman • Episode 23

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Episode 23
Discover how you can revolutionize your health with food and lifestyle choices in this heartfelt episode of "Far Too Fabulous," as we honor the incredible legacy of Dr. Michael Mosley. Learn about his groundbreaking research on the intricate relationship between diet, lifestyle, and type 2 diabetes, including his personal experimentation that led to significant health insights. We’ll unwrap the science behind the 5:2 diet and the Fast 800, both of which have gained immense popularity thanks to Dr. Mosley's work. This episode promises to deepen your understanding of how fat placement, especially around internal organs like the liver, can significantly impact your overall health.

Join us as we break down the benefits and mechanisms of various fasting methods, from total fasting to time-restricted eating and calorie restriction. You'll gain valuable insights into how these methods can enhance weight loss, boost insulin sensitivity, and support pancreatic health. We also explore the broader implications of diet and lifestyle in preventing and potentially reversing serious health conditions such as diabetes and cancer. With a special focus on the principles and benefits of the 5:2 diet, we emphasize the importance of whole foods and the impact of fasting on metabolic, liver, heart health, and more. This episode sets the stage for an enriching future discussion with Catherine on the diverse methods and benefits of fasting.

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Speaker 2:

Welcome to Far Too Fabulous hosted by Julie and Catherine. Join us on a mission to embrace your fabulousness and redefine wellness. Get ready for some feistiness, inspiration, candy chats and humour as we journey together towards empowered well-being. Let's dive in.

Speaker 1:

Hello and welcome to this week's episode of the podcast. Now, today I'm on my own and this episode is slightly different because I wanted to honour the work done by Dr Michael Moseley. Many of you would have heard that he tragically lost his life last week whilst on holiday in Greece, and I just wanted to honour the work he did, really because in the world of nutrition and natural health, he was highly regarded, and that can sometimes be rare for a doctor to be highly regarded by that audience. But one of the things that we particularly respected him for was because he recognised the link between diet and lifestyle and medical conditions like diabetes. So he's well known for, I guess, bringing to the forefront, making it, you know, making the media aware of the impact of diet on type 2 diabetes, because in 2014, he was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes despite not being overweight, and one of the things that he really raised the profile of was about the placement of fat in the body. So he spoke about the fat that goes around the tummy area, which kind of wraps around the internal organs like your liver and your pancreas, and the impact that has on how your body works, even if you're if you're not overweight. So in his case he wasn't overweight, but he was what we would what we would call thin on the outside and fat on the inside. So he had an MRI scan and then was shocked to see what was going on with his liver.

Speaker 1:

Now I've just come off the back of attending the functional medicine conference in in London for a few days, which was amazing, and there was quite a few people. There were quite a few speakers that were broaching this subject, about fat around those organs, especially around the liver, and talking about the impact of diet. Of course, because that was a key part of the conference, but it was looking at things like the, the impact of fats and the impact that has on the liver. In how the liver processes sugars can turn to fat and push up a marker like triglycerides, which is one of the markers you get in your cholesterol test and it's a key determinant for potential heart issues. So the liver can become fatty and this is where we start to see problems if we're eating too much sugar and it's having to be processed through as fat or we are drinking too much alcohol. But you know that subject is huge and the point of this episode is not to go into the details of that.

Speaker 1:

At some point, catherine and I are going to do a chat about fasting, because one of the things that Dr Mosley was incredibly well known for was the 5 and 2 diet and the fast 800. So we've now got so much evidence to support the benefits of fasting. Now I must just say that if you're somebody that has had problems around with things like eating disorders or you're at a phase of your life where fasting is not appropriate For example, if you're pregnant, if you're breastfeeding or if you have a serious illness then fasting isn't going to be for you at the moment. But there are many different ways that you can fast, which is why Catherine and I are going to end up having to have a really detailed chat about it. I think, especially with the prevalence of talk around fasting, with people like Dr Mindy Peltz who are really pushing the benefits of fasting. And there are different ways that you can do it. There are different fasts. It's like what does fasting actually mean? So, in wanting to honor Dr Michael Mosley's work, I wanted to talk about the 5-in-2 diet and the fast 800. So he wrote many books, including the blood sugar diet, but the one that I think he's most known for probably the two is the five and two diet and the fast 800.

Speaker 1:

So when he was diagnosed with type two diabetes, he one of the reasons why we really like him in this nutrition community that I'm part of is that he's one of those doctors that understood the connection between food and lifestyle but also used himself as a guinea pig. Now, nearly all therapists I know, including myself, will use ourselves as guinea pigs. So I always have got a saying that I wouldn't expect my clients to do something that I haven't tried on myself, and that could mean lifestyle things like breathwork, to diets, doing things like a reset or fasting or a candida diet or a Mediterranean diet, anti-inflammatory. I've tried all the diets on myself at the point when I write them, write the plans and yeah, always and supplements as well. So always, always, using ourself as guinea pigs. He was very known for that through some of his TV programs like Trust Me I'm a Doctor. I know that he famously infected himself with tapeworm so that he could see how that worked and what you need to do to to support your your gut, you know and to deal with that. So, yeah, he was highly respected for using himself as a guinea pig and that connection with food and lifestyle.

Speaker 1:

So when he was diagnosed with type 2 diabetes, like I said, he wasn't overweight. He was thin on the outside, fat on the inside. He took it upon himself to look into the research and find the best way that he could support himself without going down the usual route, which is long term or lifetime medication. And we all know that medications have side effects. And if we can do it through food and food is so powerful, then why wouldn't we want to do that? We know that there is a massive issue with the cost to the NHS with diabetes. So diabetes type 2 diabetes is basically when your ability to manage your blood glucose levels, you become resistant to insulin.

Speaker 1:

So when you eat something containing sugar and I think we've got to know that the body doesn't know the difference between whether that sugar came from a potato or whether that sugar came from a chocolate bar. When you get sugar into your digestive system, it's broken down into glucose and that's what's absorbed by the body. Now the problem that we've got now is that our access to sugar is easy and it's in lots of things, and it's very easy for us to consume too much. So anyway. We eat our food containing the sugars, and then our body recognizes that there's a certain amount of glucose in the blood. Of course we need glucose. We can't operate without it. We need it for so many things in our body. It is a very dangerous situation if we do not have glucose in our system, but, as with lots of things in the body, it only wants a certain amount. Too much or too little is a problem. So when we eat sugar and we have a lot sitting in our blood, it does become a stress to the body and an emergency situation that has to be dealt with.

Speaker 1:

So this is where your pancreas comes in and releases insulin, and insulin deals with the glucose. Basically. When you get type 2 diabetes, though, you lose the ability to have that relationship between insulin and glucose, because you become insulin resistant. It's like you've, you know, cried wolf so many times that the body just then doesn't listen. So this has a knock on effect of all sorts of things. So I think most of us are aware of the implications of having something like type 2 diabetes.

Speaker 1:

Diabetes type 1 is slightly different. That is where the pancreas is unable to produce insulin, and that's often diagnosed early, but it can be triggered by things like viruses that attack the pancreas. It could be due to autoimmunity. So there are other reasons why the pancreas may stop producing insulin. But in the case of type 2 diabetes, then, yep, there's a situation where the body becomes imbalanced and has too much circulating glucose, and that's damaging to the cells in the body. So it's an emergency situation.

Speaker 1:

The body tries to deal with it as best it can, and one of the ways it does it is to push it through the liver, convert it to fat, and then the downside of that is that the body can only store so much fat and you get this fat building up around the middle, around the organs, and we know that that type of fat is a lot more damaging than fat around, like our backside or our thighs. So if you've got fat there, that's safer fat than if it's all sat around your middle, and you will see lots of people with fat around their middle. You may have fat around your middle yourself and you want to deal with it. So you can use fasting to help this situation, because what happens with fasting is it's very interesting. So we're set up to burn glucose as our fuel to get our energy, but we also have a backup plan, which is to burn fat as fuel.

Speaker 1:

So when we're looking at helping our body to lose weight which is a lot of the reasons why people will do a fasting diet, mostly for weight loss that's probably the most common reason why people would do that. But when we're looking at fasting, and whether that's a total fast or whether we're using a calorie restriction or time restriction, it allows our body to burn through the glucose stores, of which we have a certain amount, and then, because glucose is then not coming in, because we're off, because we're either not eating or we're on a very low calorie diet and the sugars are kept low in a fasting diet, it means that the body has to switch, basically flip its um burning of fuel to make energy. It will do it from the fat stores and so we can then start to see that weight loss, especially around that middle, can happen in that scenario. So it's like a basically like a metabolic switch that happens and so we go from burning glucose or, if we're not burning enough glucose and we have to keep storing it as fat, it allows us the ability to basically switch to burning our fat stores and therefore we can lose weight that way, like type 2 diabetes. What we do know from fasting and this is something that Michael Mosley was very good at putting across was that when we basically limit the amount of food going in and we flip that metabolic switch, we help the pancreas and we help our insulin sensitivity. So instead of being resistant, we can be more sensitive, which kind of sounds like we want it to be around the other way, but actually we want to be our insulin to be sensitive so that it works properly and, because of the time restricted aspect of it, you're not constantly pushing our insulin.

Speaker 1:

So the two plans that he did, like I said, he's written a lot of books and done a lot of tv appearances. I have it on good authority that his podcast is very good. I think the nice thing about it is that following his his death, um, nobody had a bad word to say about him. So I think, as therapy, as a therapist myself and within that community of therapists, being able to leave a legacy like that is amazing Because, at the end of the day, we come into this job because we want to help people, and just listening to the stories of all the people that he helped through the work he did is just incredible. So going back to the five and two first of all. So let's talk about what exactly the five and two diet is, and that's one of the ones that he used initially to reverse diabetes, and I think the big message here is that food is so incredibly powerful and your lifestyle is powerful.

Speaker 1:

When I was at the conference last week, they were talking about cancer a horrible subject to talk about, but we have to discuss it because it's so common now. The figures now are staggering and yet when we were looking at genetics around cancer, we were looking that more than 90 percent of cancers were due to diet and lifestyle. Very few were due to the genetic side of things. So what you eat and all the things that myself and katherine have spoken about, you know the, the four legs of the chair, the various things to help your, your health they all are interconnected. So we have the ability and the power to really, really support our health so that we never have to get into this situation of being diagnosed with conditions such as type 2 diabetes, and I think that a lot of people are still unaware that it is possible to reverse things like that, and that's what Michael Mosley was very you know. He put that out into the world, I think, in a very good way.

Speaker 1:

So the five and two diet so, as I said, myself and Catherine are going to have a talk about fasting, because we've got so many different avenues that we can go down with that and I think that there can be a huge benefit to using fasting. The thing I like about fasting is that it is relatively easy to do and it's free, so it's it's accessible to everybody really. And so when we're looking at the five and two diet which, like I said, was one of the methods around fasting that dr mosley was known for it basically means that you eat fairly normally for five days of the week and for two days the days are never together. For two days you restrict your calories down to 25% of what you would have taken in the five days, so it's very, very low calorie for two days. So you pick two days of the week, keep them separated from each other so they're not consecutive this is very important and you restrict your calories down to around five to 600 calories.

Speaker 1:

Now, we have mentioned before on this podcast about calories and the the fact that it's not a good guide really, because not all calories are the same. But for the five and two diet, you need to be able to make sure that you restrict the amount that you would normally eat down to that level. And then there's been lots of discussions around can you eat whatever you like then for five days? Can you be a right pig and just eat all of the fast foods and the processed foods and then do two days of fasting and everything's fine? Well, of course not. That's not the case.

Speaker 1:

The idea is that you still want to nourish your body. Your body is still dependent on the fiber, the protein quality, the vitamins and minerals going in there. It's more of a look at reducing the amount of sugars, basically. So I'll come on to the fast 800 in a minute, but just so that you have an appreciation of the five and two, because it's a good place to start. If you're new to fasting or you've been inspired listening to some of the Michael Mosley stories that have come out in the recent few days you know the recent days since his death was announced and you want to improve your health, it's a good place to start. So, basically, I would always say, as you know, make sure that your diet is generally healthy from whole foods.

Speaker 1:

So aim to have most of your diet come from fresh ingredients cooking from scratch. You know what's going in there, you're avoiding the chemicals and then eat like that for those five days and then on the two days, just reduce it right down. It does help to go down to maybe a couple of meals. This is why it's not suitable for everyone. Like I said, if you you know you've got history of eating disorders or you're at a phase of your life where it's not recommended that you reduce your food intake, then please don't do this. But for everyone else, it's easier when we're restricting calories to only have a couple of meals in that day. You cut out all the snacking because that's going to increase your amount of insulin produced and it's going to keep your glucose topped up because most snacks are full of sugar. So, yeah, that's basically what you do. So you eat normally for five days and you pick two days in the week where you severely restrict your calories, especially on the sugar side of things. So you can go to the five and two website and get more information about it. And I know that dr mosey had a lot of recipes and things and he always always cooked from scratch for those things as well. So give that a try if you're someone that wants to improve their metabolic health. Basically, at the end of the day, we want to make sure that our metabolic health is good, because if we are able to be metabolically adaptive and flip that switch between burning sugars and fats, we know that that has an impact on how we age, and this is an area of study that we're looking at for longevity. So there are lots of things that this can help with, even when we're looking at things like the gut microbiome can be helped with fasting. Again, there's some amazing studies that back up things like not taking any food in for 24 hours to reset the gut. So there are lots and lots of benefits. But for the purpose of this podcast episode, we're really looking at helping support our metabolic health, helping our insulin to be nice and sensitive, helping us get rid of fat that may be around the middle, that we don't want.

Speaker 1:

And this diet is again, it's not a short term thing. It's something that people could follow. I know people that just do this all the time. That's just the way they eat, and then you don't have to worry too much about the restriction for the other five days. As long as, like I said, your diet is generally coming from whole foods, you've got the colors of the other five days. As long as, like I said, your diet is generally coming from whole food, you've got the colors of the rainbow in there. You know, please be sensible about it, because I know that fasting can be one of those things that people can use to kind of counter their terrible diet. It's a bit like taking supplements does not is not a substitute for a good diet, but you've got to start off with a good diet, and it's the same with any form of fasting. So this five and two diet is a form of intermittent fasting. So for two days you're really restricting the calories and the other five days you're eating a more normal diet. So that was a five and two. That, yeah, he was very well known for and, like I said, it's about flipping that metabolic switch and the benefits in terms of liver health and heart health. There is a connection with things like blood pressure. Definitely, the cholesterol levels can be impacted by this. So I think it's a really good starting place.

Speaker 1:

Now, the FAST 800 was basically a program that he then went on to write to look at when people are overweight and they need to do something a bit more radically. I think that was the approach there. So, yeah, and he did the very fast 800 as well. So he had the five and two and then the fast 800, the very fast 800. So the three approaches the principles really were that they were low carbohydrate, they were based on a Mediterranean style diet, and people that were overweight that wanted to kickstart weight loss, often started with the very fast 800, which is an 800 calorie diet, and then moved on to the five and two. So you've got the flexibility there.

Speaker 1:

But basically the idea of the fast 800 is is to it's that kickstart to improve the metabolic health until you get your weight achieved, and then it's only used for a short term though, because the calories are very low. So if people were looking to reduce their blood sugar levels, reverse type 2 diabetes or lose weight fast, this was a diet that could be used for up to 12 weeks and, like I said, it improves your insulin resistance and it flips that switch, that metabolic switch, over to burn your fuel from fat rather than from sugar. So we do have to be a little bit careful with some of these things because you know, we want to make sure that we've got plenty of protein so that we don't start to lose our muscle mass, especially if we're ladies of a certain age and we're doing this style of fasting. So we need to make sure that we've got protein in there and that we are moving our bodies, because that also helps. But I think the five and two is a nice thing to do for if you want to, if you've got a weight loss goal where you're looking at a gradual weight loss, you want to do it in a more sustainable way. I think it's a healthy approach.

Speaker 1:

But if you're really metabolically stuck and you can't seem to shift weight, or you've got issues around you know type 2 diabetes, or you know your blood sugars are a problem, or you've got that weight around the middle then you certainly could go to the Very Fast or the Fast 800. Again, there is a website that you could look at for this, this information and, of course, if you need some help with this, then of course speak to me or someone like me or Catherine, because we are like we said a lot on the podcast. We like the weight loss to be a positive side effect of the other things that you're doing in your life. So making sure that your health is not just about weight loss is really important to both of us, but at the same time, it is one of one of the big goals that people come to both of us with of us with, and sometimes, when you get stuck and you need to be able to switch your body to you know, like I said, if it's got stuck in a certain way and you need to improve how your insulin's working, then of course, some of these things can make a huge difference and, as I've said, I'm I am a huge fan of fasting, but there are so many different ways to do it and different, different formats and different plans, and some of them have some fancy names, like, you know, the five and two or the fast 800.

Speaker 1:

But basically, what we're really looking at doing is supporting our body in a way that it expected us to do so. Again, when we're looking at how our body's set up, it still thinks that we are going to be living in a cave, that we've got to go forage for food, so there'd be times of the year where we would have had more food available and we would have wanted those fat stores to build up so that we didn't waste away in the winter when food was scarce. But of course nowadays we have a completely different situation. So I think that fasting is great. I think the five and two is a good place to start, but the main purpose of this podcast episode, I think, was to to just like I said at the start was to honor the work that Dr Michael Mosley had done over the years and bringing that diet lifestyle connection to health. Was you know any anybody like that that can raise that profile? Is is really helpful to the natural nutrition community. It's really really important.

Speaker 1:

One of the things that I should have mentioned about looking at fasting important. One of the things that I should have mentioned about looking at fasting. One of the things that I do I've mentioned before is to look at the genetic side for how well the body is set up to burn fat, because sometimes people are compromised there and they need a little bit of help. So if you're someone that has tried fasting and you're getting stuck and you're not getting anywhere with it, then that could be a problem. So I've just been seeing a client who's done fasting before.

Speaker 1:

Was not getting anywhere with it, but we've run the dna and looked at what supports needed to really get that metabolic switch happening, and also using devices that measure your blood glucose, like cgms, which again katherine and I are going to have a conversation about and even measuring things like ketones, which can help you understand if your body is in burning fat mode when you start looking at all those details. If you're someone that is getting stuck with this, then understanding that how your body works in that scenario can make a huge difference to how fasting works for your body. So I'm going to leave this episode. We're just saying a big, huge thank you to dr michael mosley for all the work he's done, and I hope his work and some of the comments I've made on this podcast also help you with your health. Thanks for listening.

Speaker 2:

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Speaker 1:

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Speaker 2:

Make it a fabulous week and we'll catch you in the next episode.